Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

[IBK]

The Times did a piece today, analysing how EPL teams have been affected by injury this season. It was entitled
Mourinho stays silent after Chelsea keep their casualties to a minimum

The article calculated how many player weeks each of the top teams have lost this season through injury. First, it looked at the loss of weeks from players likely to be first choice for a starting 11.

The data?

Chelsea’s first-choice team have been absent for a total of only 24 weeks this season, whereas Liverpool’s have missed a combined 57 weeks, Manchester City’s 69 and Arsenal’s 84.

It went further, and looked at the loss of teams' likely first 15.

For the record, by extending the analysis from each club’s leading 11 players to the top 15, the combined weeks missed through injury are 52 for Chelsea, 76 for City, 87 for Liverpool, 135 for United and 152 for Arsenal.

Of course, stats can be manipulated at will - but Arsenal's injury data is shocking - even if we are well used to key players being out.

My first reaction to our last few positive results has been that we have shown, recently, that we can perform against teams below the top 6, and that we know how to scrape top 4 - its doing better than that that is our problem.

But I freely admit that the above stats make me question whether my points of criticism of Wenger are accurate, and whether the question marks over him should be in relation to his fitness regime and his failure to back his first team up properly rather than his ability to read and understand the game.

Am I right to reconsider, or am I falling back into the Arsene 'brainwash' of always looking to explain our failure to win, rather than accepting that he is no longer a good enough football coach to win the league?

[Özim]

The injuries have been a problem, but there's been lots of other problems as well, in the transfer market, regarding tactics, substitutions, blind faith in too many players.

It's also taken him 9 years to look into the injuries, I find this mystifying, we've known about the injuries for years.

IMO he's not a manager for the modern game as he doesn't move with the times and adapt, his attitude towards 4th spot is over the top as well, his reaction is one of having won something major/or being on the verge of winning something major, it shouldn't be.....after 9 years he should be disappointed with 4th again if he gets it.

[IBK]

The injuries have been a problem, but there's been lots of other problems as well, in the transfer market, regarding tactics, substitutions, blind faith in too many players.

It's also taken him 9 years to look into the injuries, I find this mystifying, we've known about the injuries for years.

IMO he's not a manager for the modern game as he doesn't move with the times and adapt.

I agree with you - but the injury stats do make me wonder whether with Ramsey; Ozil and Walcott we would not have had our 2 month disaster? In other words - despite the failings that we know Wenger has (as all managers do) - would a 50% improvement in our fitness stats have meant that these failings would not have operated to sink our title ambitions?

[Özim]

I agree with you - but the injury stats do make me wonder whether with Ramsey; Ozil and Walcott we would not have had our 2 month disaster? In other words - despite the failings that we know Wenger has (as all managers do) - would a 50% improvement in our fitness stats have meant that these failings would not have operated to sink our title ambitions?

IMO I still think we would have collapsed, history shows it's a trait with the recent Wenger teams, we were looking tired in December and there was half a season to go then and since then we've scraped wins. The problem is we just haven't done the necessary in the transfer market, add to this poor tactical nous illustrated by the games against Liverpool and Chelsea where at 1 or 2 nil down we were being overrun and he sat there doing nothing, that's when a manager earns his stars by making changes that affect the flow of the game, he just doesn't

[LDG]

I don't think we would have had enough without that extra striker.

It seems pretty obvious to me that it is the major deficiency in the squad. Something that should have been addressed in the summer, and even with the benefit of doubt, should have been done in January.

The refusal to patch upbthe same problem witnessed against City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Everton, is also the reason.

The injuries have certainly played a part, and perhaps cost us 6 to 8 points? But I'm afraid you never win the league unless you take another couple of scalps from your main rivals.

[IBK]

Fair points both - but is it these reasons rather than Wenger having been left behind tactically that we should focus on?

[Marc Overmars]

I think we were lacking up front to begin with and the injuries just finished us off. Even when we were leading the table I never particularly thought our football was that good, more efficient than anything. Injuries are certainly a problem though, it happens every season. Pretty obvious something is not right with how fitness is handled.

Who knows, we might have a few more points had key players been fit, but injuries are something every club has to legislate for. Us more so than anyone.

Nothing will change my view that Wenger is yesterdays man now. Rodgers and Liverpool are certified proof of that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think we were lacking up front to begin with and the injuries just finished us off. Even when we were leading the table I never particularly thought our football was that good, more efficient than anything. Injuries are certainly a problem though, it happens every season. Pretty obvious something is not right with how fitness is handled.

Who knows, we might have a few more points had key players been fit, but injuries are something every club has to legislate for. Us more so than anyone.

Nothing will change my view that Wenger is yesterdays man now. Rodgers and Liverpool are certified proof of that.

Ugh i am sick of hearing that Rodgers is some kind of tactical genius, he has in Suarez the third best player in the world at the moment, he has pace in his team that allows them to overwhelm most defences and he is getting good performances (at times) from players in his side that are at best distinctly average and at worse...apalling.

He might shoehorn his team into slightly different formation, but the result is the same...that against a lot of sides they blitz them early on and shoot their bolt and look leggy and lethargic for the rest of the match (evidenced in the second half performances against city and norwich).

Their defence in terms of personnel and defensive set up is near on diabolical for a side that will win the title, don't get me wrong Rodgers has surpassed himself but i don't see anything about him that makes him a genius of any kind. This is not defending Wenger in any way, shape or form but if you are able to spend 100m on players since you joined the club and mount a title challenge in a season where there is a bit of a power vacum it makes you a good manager, not necessarily a great one.

Whilst fair play to him, he's proved to people that he's no longer an incompitent who is badly out of place as manager of that club, it still makes me shudder that he is thought of so highly....let's see where he is in a few seasons time.

[IBK]

Ugh i am sick of hearing that Rodgers is some kind of tactical genius, he has in Suarez the third best player in the world at the moment, he has pace in his team that allows them to overwhelm most defences and he is getting good performances (at times) from players in his side that are at best distinctly average and at worse...apalling.

He might shoehorn his team into slightly different formation, but the result is the same...that against a lot of sides they blitz them early on and shoot their bolt and look leggy and lethargic for the rest of the match (evidenced in the second half performances against city and norwich).

Their defence in terms of personnel and defensive set up is near on diabolical for a side that will win the title, don't get me wrong Rodgers has surpassed himself but i don't see anything about him that makes him a genius of any kind. This is not defending Wenger in any way, shape or form but if you are able to spend 100m on players since you joined the club and mount a title challenge in a season where there is a bit of a power vacum it makes you a good manager, not necessarily a great one.

Whilst fair play to him, he's proved to people that he's no longer an incompitent who is badly out of place as manager of that club, it still makes me shudder that he is thought of so highly....let's see where he is in a few seasons time.

I started my Rogers thread before seeing this. You may well agree with me...

[Marc Overmars]

Ugh i am sick of hearing that Rodgers is some kind of tactical genius, he has in Suarez the third best player in the world at the moment, he has pace in his team that allows them to overwhelm most defences and he is getting good performances (at times) from players in his side that are at best distinctly average and at worse...apalling.

He might shoehorn his team into slightly different formation, but the result is the same...that against a lot of sides they blitz them early on and shoot their bolt and look leggy and lethargic for the rest of the match (evidenced in the second half performances against city and norwich).

Their defence in terms of personnel and defensive set up is near on diabolical for a side that will win the title, don't get me wrong Rodgers has surpassed himself but i don't see anything about him that makes him a genius of any kind. This is not defending Wenger in any way, shape or form but if you are able to spend 100m on players since you joined the club and mount a title challenge in a season where there is a bit of a power vacum it makes you a good manager, not necessarily a great one.

Whilst fair play to him, he's proved to people that he's no longer an incompitent who is badly out of place as manager of that club, it still makes me shudder that he is thought of so highly....let's see where he is in a few seasons time.

I never said he was a genius or anything like that. In fact it shows Wenger up even more that Liverpool have not even had to be special to get the job done.