Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How can his views on the transfer window be unrelated to overplaying Ramsey and Giroud? For example.

Wenger on the Sanogo signing.


Wenger comparing his signing to Anelka.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...nicolas-anelka



What do you make of these sort of statements? You can't say these sort of things have no reflection on his actions. These are the sort of statements I'm talking about. He's wrongly placed his faith in young injury prone player and as a result we have to overplay Giroud.

Overplaying Giroud is a result of not signing a striker after being rebuffed in his effort to sign Suarez (who he bid for after signing Sanogo) so actually has nothing at all to do with his economic philosophies but more to do with his and the club's general ham fisted incompitence when it comes to the transfer market.
And Giroud isn't shit because he's been overplayed....i don't think it's fair to give him that kind of out, he's shit because he's shit, slow and lazy.
Other players are injured because they have been overplayed and this is despite there being squad depth to rotate more often than he has...(no need to play Ozil against Coventry for instance)

[Power n Glory]

My previous post actually stated that the comments from ex professionals gives nothing away about how he regards his own players. That there is nothing said that he regards the players as his own sons was what i said.
And like i said man united players said they regarded Fergie as a father figure and we know of his tendency towards verbally and sometimes physically abusing them, so it means very little.

What do you mean? Henry, Song and Cesc have all described Wenger as a father figure and that's after they've left the club. Players have also gone on to say that he'd hardly ever lose his temper and it was usually the big characters in the dressing room that handled the conflicts. This isn't made up stuff.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I would buy that statement if he hadnt won trophies with Porto and Inter. I do not believe he had a 'billionaire fueled net spend' when at those teams.

He did at Inter, whilst it wasn't in the same amount of what he spent at Chelsea and Real Madrid it certainly wasn't a shoe string budget he had.

Muntari, Motta, Sneijder, Eto'o, Lucio, Milito...net spending of about 60-70 million, gross spending of about 130million.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What do you mean? Henry, Song and Cesc have all described Wenger as a father figure and that's after they've left the club. Players have also gone on to say that he'd hardly ever lose his temper and it was usually the big characters in the dressing room that handled the conflicts. This isn't made up stuff.

Again you fail to appreciate what i'm saying...calling a manager a father figure is the kind of dressed up placating statement players tend to make especially when they are leaving the club to another big club, it tells you literally nothing.
And what i am saying is, they may have regarded him as a father figure, it's a stretch to say that he regarded them as sons or failed to discipline them or criticise them because of this. I think anything critical of the players would go on behind closed doors....and to say that you know otherwise is speculative.

[Niall_Quinn]

The one thing you can't argue with Mourinho is his success. Everything else is up for debate. He is the world master at stopping other teams playing. He has created a cult around himself and has a management style that is incredibly effective if players buy into this (unlike they did at RM). But he is an enemy of football in the sense that his motivation begins and ends at himself. He clearly feels no responsibility towards the game that has given him success - and for a manager of his pedigree to play the way he does, and behave the way he does is inexcusable. Comparing Wenger to Mourinho in terms of custodianship of the game is like comparing Nelson mandela with Robert Mugabe.

Anyone who spends a billion quid and then opts to park the bus is a loser, no matter how many trophies he bores his way to. Football doesn't end with delivering trophies, at least it shouldn't. Our cup robbery the last time we won something, when we bored Utd off the pitch, will never find a place in the club legend. We only hear about it because it's the last thing we won. But Alan Sunderland scoring that third goal - that's football history. Or Ricky Villa, spud that he was. This is football. Can anyone think of a single instance involving the chavs and say, wow, great to be there, great to see that? Last thing that Mourinho did worth note was running down the touchline against Utd, how many years ago was that? The rest of it? Great results for sure - great moments, no. Great for the chav fans, most of whom are glory hunters anyway so they wouldn't care beyond the trophies and don't know anything about the game. For the wider football audience, who is Mourinho? My opinion is he's a specialist in failure when it comes to what really matters. Wenger will retire a legend. Maureen will be remembered as the crude journeyman who had a knack for destroying the game, financially and as an art.

He's also a cunt.

[Power n Glory]

Overplaying Giroud is a result of not signing a striker after being rebuffed in his effort to sign Suarez (who he bid for after signing Sanogo) so actually has nothing at all to do with his economic philosophies but more to do with his and the club's general ham fisted incompitence when it comes to the transfer market.
And Giroud isn't shit because he's been overplayed....i don't think it's fair to give him that kind of out, he's shit because he's shit, slow and lazy.
Other players are injured because they have been overplayed and this is despite there being squad depth to rotate more often than he has...(no need to play Ozil against Coventry for instance)

No, no let's clear up this mess. I'm saying Wenger's actions are reflected in such statements. Suarez is concerning the summer transfer window. We should have signed a striker in January but Wenger didn't and I believe part of the reason is down to his faith in Sanogo.

I also said nothing about Giroud as a player. That's a different argument.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We should have signed a striker in January but Wenger didn't and I believe part of the reason is down to his faith in Sanogo.

That's my point though, that's your belief...it's not something you have substantive to back that up with

My belief is that we don't have that much money to spend and that the money budgeted for a striker was spent on Ozil, that's why any signing made in the transfer window in January was going to be on loan?.

Is that the case?...i don't know....i am specculating...but that's exactly what your doing. The point is i criticise the man based on facts, not on what surmising what the facts might be. Therefore I criticise his lack of progress over the last nine years, i don't feel the need to critcise everything that comes out of his mouth.

As i've said, it's only my opinion but i feel that he is stagnant, few managers short of Ferguson could be at a club as long as AW and not become stagnant...he's given us all he's got and it's not enough anymore. He's too old to change, his mistakes are becoming more obvious and he doesn't even seem to enjoy what he does anymore.
I feel people like you are more adverse to him on a personal level and over analyze everything he says so you can come back and use it as a stick to beat him with. Again i could be wrong, but that's my perception...but you seem to think your "perceptions" of events valid, so why shouldn't mine be?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He's also a cunt.

Find me someone who has psychopathic personality traits who isn't

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And just to lighten the mood slighty

[Power n Glory]

Again you fail to appreciate what i'm saying...calling a manager a father figure is the kind of dressed up placating statement players tend to make especially when they are leaving the club to another big club, it tells you literally nothing.
And what i am saying is, they may have regarded him as a father figure, it's a stretch to say that he regarded them as sons or failed to discipline them or criticise them because of this. I think anything critical of the players would go on behind closed doors....and to say that you know otherwise is speculative.

I don't agree with that, especially the part in bold. We've been managed by Wenger for 18 years and there is enough information out there to give you an idea of his character. I know what you're getting at and most of what we're working on is speculation to what's happening behind closed doors. We don't want to over analyse everything, but after 18 years, are you telling me Wenger is sort of mystic figure who we know very little about? Would you presume him to be a fiery, confrontational type of manager that barks orders at his players? If not, why not?