The "Where is the Fabregas thread" thread

[mastermind84]

Fabregas isn't the demi-god some of you guys are making him out to be. His stats were impressive but to put them into perspective he played the majority of his games as a false nine, NOT as a central midfielder. Even Bendtner could get a 1 in 3 record as a Barca forward...

Now there has to be a reason why Cesc was being played out of position. He was literally bought as the long term successor to Xavi, to fill his gigantic boots when he eventually decides to hang them up. But within a few months they gave up on that and shoved him upfront. Initially it was to fit everyone in the team but there is only one logical explanation why he was never trusted with a real opportunity in the Xavi role. It was because he wasn't good enough, in their eyes at least.

Xavi or Iniesta have very unique roles and Cesc isn't even close to them at their best. He's not as fluid as them, slows down the game by taking too much time on the ball and he loses the ball by going for speculative long passes when he should keep possession. He doesn't impose himself in matches and he completely disappears in big matches.

I know what you're thinking - that doesn't sound like Cesc, right? Go and find a Barca forum and read up for yourself. He's their Statinho, racking up the stats and looking good on paper but having a negative impact on the performance of the team.

The reaction from Barca says it all. Where's the public outcry from the fans? Where's his team mates telling us how shocked they are? Where's the national team coach; calling Barca stupid for making the mistake of selling him? That's what Ozil got, a player that is universally considered a better player than Cesc. Meanwhile Barca have almost got a replacement in Rakitic faster than Fabregas can be kicked out of the door. As for their fans, they were far more upset about Thiago leaving to Bayern. Again, if you don't believe me go and look on a Barca forum - on the whole they are actually happy to see the back of Cesc, who they believe was holding them back, and was one of the reasons they lost a better player in Thiago.

That's not to say that Fabregas is a bad player. We all know how brilliant he can be. But there's no reason to slit our wrists because we didn't buy him considering the CAMs we already have. I'd actually applaud Wenger on having the courage to say no to him provided he uses the money to buy world class players, true game changers in the positions we need them in. If not then yeah, bring on the rampage/massacre/mass suicide.

powerful posting.

[mastermind84]

If Cesc were the only 'flop' or player not to fit into their system, you'd have a valid point. Yaya Toure, Ibrahimovic, Alexis Sanchez....some players just don't suit a system. Cesc is more suited to the Prem because he's used to having freedom to roam. When he first moved to Barca, Pep marked that trait as a weakness whereas here at Arsenal, it would be a bonus.

As for Ozil...the verdict is still out. He might not be the player we need. It can happen. Cesc aside, i think Cazorla had a more successful debut season. Reputation can only take you so far.

Alexis Sanchez had a great season for Barca last year and did fit their system.

He and Messi hate each other apparently.

Yaya fit Barca's system, but they found a better player for them in Busquets.

Zlatan is the only one you have a point with, but Zlatan wins everywhere he goes. Cant say that about Francesc.

And as a #10, Ozil>Cesc

In CM, Ramsey>>Cesc.

He doesnt fit, move on lads.

[Alpha]

powerful posting.

In the world of football , there are exceptional players who can win a game or change it by themselves . Players like Messi , Ronaldo even Luis Suarez are in this category . There are also another category of brilliant players whose efficiency depend on how their coach use them and how their teammates take advantage of their ability on the pitch . This is where we can talk about Fabregas . Wenger knew how to use him and he made the team aware of his ability . Fabregas become the focal point of Arsenal and terrorised many teams for his vision and killer passes . That is what made Barca sniffed around Arsenal for his signature and created the DNA myth just to have him back . But unfortunately Cesc was naive to accept and neither the Barca players nor their coach didn't know how to use him . They made him an ordinary player and shattered his confidence .
But if Fabregas can recover his confidence and be used efficiently he can still become a wonderful central midfielder .

[Power n Glory]

Alexis Sanchez had a great season for Barca last year and did fit their system.

He and Messi hate each other apparently.

Yaya fit Barca's system, but they found a better player for them in Busquets.

Zlatan is the only one you have a point with, but Zlatan wins everywhere he goes. Cant say that about Francesc.

And as a #10, Ozil>Cesc

In CM, Ramsey>>Cesc.

He doesnt fit, move on lads.

I still don’t agree with this argument about Cesc not fitting in. It’s like saying we shouldn’t go for Sanchez because we have Theo as our starting winger on the right with Ox on the bench behind him. You can adjust things slightly to see what works and if we get Sanchez we’ll have to work something out.

Ozil plays on the right for Germany because they have Gotze, Kroos and Muller. We don’t need to overload our team with central attackers like they have, but Ozil isn’t the sort of player that stays in the centre anyway. We drifts to wide positions all the time and does most of his damage in the final third whereas Fabregas can hurt you from the middle of the pitch as well as in the final third. They’re two different players. It doesn’t matter now because he’s gone to Chelsea, but I hope we get our targets in otherwise we’ve missed a trick.

[Niall_Quinn]

But unfortunately Cesc was naive to accept and neither the Barca players nor their coach didn't know how to use him.

Very naive. He went from being the central figure at Arsenal to another one of the crowd to fit in around the established team leaders at Barca. On top of that the whole signing was drowned in politics and the usual Barca circus, every year they compete with Madrid in the same old farce. Neymar will be the next player destroyed by this. Although maybe not, because as we saw with the national team, it's time for Barca to move on and build something new. Doubt they'll learn any lessons about the way they conduct themselves in the transfer market though. Fabregas was such an easy win for us. Big shame, and a scandal if we aren't planning to bring in some serious quality this transfer window. The only redeeming factor is there's a strong chance Maureen won't have a clue how to use Fabregas either. The intensely negative shit going on in chavland won't suit Fabregas at all.

[AFC Leveller]

I would have loved to have Cesc back but the reality is that as good a passer and midfield anchor as he is, Ramsey is a MATCH WINNER for us, he won us so many games on his own last season where as Cesc isnt that kind of player.

[mastermind84]

In the world of football , there are exceptional players who can win a game or change it by themselves . Players like Messi , Ronaldo even Luis Suarez are in this category . There are also another category of brilliant players whose efficiency depend on how their coach use them and how their teammates take advantage of their ability on the pitch . This is where we can talk about Fabregas . Wenger knew how to use him and he made the team aware of his ability . Fabregas become the focal point of Arsenal and terrorised many teams for his vision and killer passes . That is what made Barca sniffed around Arsenal for his signature and created the DNA myth just to have him back . But unfortunately Cesc was naive to accept and neither the Barca players nor their coach didn't know how to use him . They made him an ordinary player and shattered his confidence .
But if Fabregas can recover his confidence and be used efficiently he can still become a wonderful central midfielder .

No, Barcelona knew how to use him. They put him in those positions to get the best out of him, but they ended up throwing him aside because they have better players in those positions. They played Cesc centrally and moved Messi, out wide ffs. They did this because Cesc is not a central midfielder. Arsene realized that too, hence why he was played at the #10 while he was in Arsenal.

I still don’t agree with this argument about Cesc not fitting in. It’s like saying we shouldn’t go for Sanchez because we have Theo as our starting winger on the right with Ox on the bench behind him. You can adjust things slightly to see what works and if we get Sanchez we’ll have to work something out.

Ozil plays on the right for Germany because they have Gotze, Kroos and Muller. We don’t need to overload our team with central attackers like they have, but Ozil isn’t the sort of player that stays in the centre anyway. We drifts to wide positions all the time and does most of his damage in the final third whereas Fabregas can hurt you from the middle of the pitch as well as in the final third. They’re two different players. It doesn’t matter now because he’s gone to Chelsea, but I hope we get our targets in otherwise we’ve missed a trick.

Ozil plays off Mueller on the right with Goetze off Mueller on the left. Its not a wide right position at all. If you look at the heat map in today's match, he spends most of his time right off the penalty area

And Cesc doesnt fit because we dont need to spend 30 million on a position we are well stoked with world class talent in. The Theo-Sanchez analogy is poor because a)Sanchez can play across the front line b)Theo and Sanchez can play together.

If you sign Cesc, you turn Ramsey into a grunt player to accommodate Cesc being indiscipline in the middle.

Very naive. He went from being the central figure at Arsenal to another one of the crowd to fit in around the established team leaders at Barca. On top of that the whole signing was drowned in politics and the usual Barca circus, every year they compete with Madrid in the same old farce. Neymar will be the next player destroyed by this. Although maybe not, because as we saw with the national team, it's time for Barca to move on and build something new. Doubt they'll learn any lessons about the way they conduct themselves in the transfer market though. Fabregas was such an easy win for us. Big shame, and a scandal if we aren't planning to bring in some serious quality this transfer window. The only redeeming factor is there's a strong chance Maureen won't have a clue how to use Fabregas either. The intensely negative shit going on in chavland won't suit Fabregas at all.

If you really believe Cesc got pushed out for politics, the Barca circus, and whatever other nonsense then you are naive. He just wasnt good enough for them. And Maureen will soon figure out that he bought a souped up Mata.

If we didnt have Ozil, I would be fine with signing back Cesc. Ozil is a better player, so we dont need him. If we had an unlimited budget, I would also sign Cesc. Unfortunately Arsenal does not and has other needs.

I would have loved to have Cesc back but the reality is that as good a passer and midfield anchor as he is, Ramsey is a MATCH WINNER for us, he won us so many games on his own last season where as Cesc isnt that kind of player.

as a CM, Ramsey>Cesc.

Its not even up for debate anymore.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Ramsey and Ozil have done more for Arsenal than Cesc ever did. We have a trophy to our name and they don't f*ck off to formula 1 when the teams in the heat of battle.

However, Cesc is still a wonderful player and would have added brilliant depth to our squad.

[Power n Glory]

Ozil plays off Mueller on the right with Goetze off Mueller on the left. Its not a wide right position at all. If you look at the heat map in today's match, he spends most of his time right off the penalty area

And Cesc doesnt fit because we dont need to spend 30 million on a position we are well stoked with world class talent in. The Theo-Sanchez analogy is poor because a)Sanchez can play across the front line b)Theo and Sanchez can play together.

If you sign Cesc, you turn Ramsey into a grunt player to accommodate Cesc being indiscipline in the middle.

Ozil’s just as undisciplined in his movement but that hasn’t hampered Ramsey. His movement is unorthodox and he floats away from the centre when playing for us, but that doesn’t reduce Ramsey to a grunt player sweeping up after him. I disagree with that point. It’s not impossible for them all to play together. Either way, he’s gone to another club and we need a more influential player in the midfield. In the final third we can make things happen but we can struggle to get a foothold in the game when passing from the back. If we’re not going for another CM we need to do better in the DM position.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Khedira looked decent when he came on last night.

He is also fat.