Has Wenger really benefitted AFC since 2006?

[Daniele]

I disagree, the players we have, have the ability and the technical gifts to be great, what they lack is the self belief and the character to get wins when they are taking knocks, this team has a glass jaw its as simple as that. How many times in the last couple of seasons have we conceded a goal and the heads dropped and then ambled on. Who do the players look to when they are down and out? The manager, sadly the one we have seems to be unable to get them up for any more. IMO Wenger doesn't exude that air of confidence or that winning knack any more, he looks more like a lost old man. I agree that some of the signings have been wrong but even a shit player can be driven on by an inspirational leader, which we don't have.

Also comparing the character and self motivational ability of Henry and Vieira to Rosicky and Arshavin is just silly.

this team hasn't got a single player that stands out. Only half-players and some decent ones. I didn't compare the character of Arshavin and Rosicky with other players, I was only saying that they captain their national teams so they must have some kind of character. Also players like Vieira and Henry were the makings of AW, as they were nobody before coming to us. Henry's first touch was as poor as Walcott's at Juventus and Monaco, Vieira was sold by Milan after playing just one game at Bordeaux. He was pants.

AW spotted their qualities and developed them. I think that what he got wrong during these trophyless years are the signngs. Motivation means nothing at all if we don't know players and human being personally. Maybe Rosicky is vocal, maybe not. Who knows? You? Ask a silly question, get a silly answer. Not from me.

[Daniele]

to me there's something very wrong in our perception of the team. Arsenal have never been a great European side. we reached the EC final with AW in 2006 and won 6 league titles over the last 40 years. Three through AW who also presided over the Unbeaten season. To go 6 seasons without winning a major trophy is commonplace for this club.

In his 15 years tenure I never expected AW's Arsenal to win the league, as at least one club, Man Utd, always had a better equipped team than ours. When you talk about Great British teams steeped in the memory of European fans, they talk about Utd and Liverpool as Arsenal have won next to nought abroad.

AW has taken Arsenal to a level where we have never been before, setting standards that are setting up his own downfall.

[fakeyank]

to me there's something very wrong in our perception of the team. Arsenal have never been a great European side. we reached the EC final with AW in 2006 and won 6 league titles over the last 40 years. Three through AW who also presided over the Unbeaten season. To go 6 seasons without winning a major trophy is commonplace for this club.

In his 15 years tenure I never expected AW's Arsenal to win the league, as at least one club, Man Utd, always had a better equipped team than ours. When you talk about Great British teams steeped in the memory of European fans, they talk about Utd and Liverpool as Arsenal have won next to nought abroad.

AW has taken Arsenal to a level where we have never been before, setting standards that are setting up his own downfall.

The problem ALL AW backers fail to see is what he IS doing to the club. As far as my perception of the whole situation goes, its not the fact that AW has not won a trophy, it IS the fact that we do not even TRY. Back in the stone ages when we didnt win trophies, we put our best foot forward going into a season. We have a net profit in transfers yet they are not addressed. We have the same defensive frailties that are not addressed... how much more can a fan take?

Also another important thing to take note is that sooner rather than later, the big elite clubs will be miles ahead of others. This is not 1960 where all 20 teams starting the PL season has a chance to win the league. Times are different and for better or worse, it will remain the same. If we sit and procrastinate saying that we have gone zillions of years without a trophy, we can add 6 more to that, then thats a huge freakin mistake. We need to keep pace with the Utd's, Chelsea's, Barca's and Milan's of the world.

What are the fans really asking? Nobody I know has mentioned that we need to break the bank and sign a 50 million quid player. All we are asking is for some change in tactics, add some experience. Why couldnt Arteta, Santos, Mertesacker and Chu Young been added earlier? We have had glaring problems at CB position for years and IMO, it is yet not completely solved.. whose fault is it?

Wenger WAS good.. he is past it now. For his sake, I hope he doesnt tarnish his legacy at Arsenal.

[Cripps_orig]

I hope he doesnt tarnish his legacy at Arsenal.

Too late imo.

[IBK]

The quality that you daily deride the manager for bringing in, putting on high salary's whilst ridiculing for failing to replace? And why should Bolton need top players to not lose 5-0 vs stoke?

*sighs*

Pointless arguing with the best Arsenal Fan in the World ever, really.

[Cripps_orig]

Pointless arguing with the best Arsenal Fan in the World ever, really.

NBN die?

[IBK]

Fall from grace might be a bit harsh, we are still a top 4 side despite the burden of a new stadium and the birth of the sugar daddy owner (Ignoring Jack Walker) we have been to 3 cup finals as well, we just fall the wrong side of that fine line people keep talking about. Are we weaker than when we were at Highbury? yes of course we are, is that all down to Wenger? No

To AKBwhatshisfaces point i would suggest that a man management or tactics expert could take what we have right now and do very very well with it, I think if another more, dare i say, "football" manager type had the backing that Wenger has received under such furious criticism they would have won trophies in the last six years IMO.

Tis funny but i watched Wigan play the other night and was genuinely jealous of the effort, self belief and style they were operating with, and they are beyond shite. Comparing that to our keystone cops type of play is like comparing, erm, well Arsenal and Wigan.

Oh I meant relatively speaking (re fall from grace). There was a time when 'Arsene Knew' and there was as little a reason to question what he is doing than there is with SAF. Different times now (unless you are AKB - whose name says it all really).

[IBK]

NBN die?

I think AKB is his love child!

[Letters]

The problem ALL AW backers fail to see is what he IS doing to the club. As far as my perception of the whole situation goes, its not the fact that AW has not won a trophy, it IS the fact that we do not even TRY. Back in the stone ages when we didnt win trophies, we put our best foot forward going into a season. We have a net profit in transfers yet they are not addressed. We have the same defensive frailties that are not addressed... how much more can a fan take?

What's frustrating is that IMO he is the reason we're still top 4 (I think under most managers during the stadium move and with the rise and rise of the billionaire owner and other clubs spending big we'd have long since slipped out) but I also think he's the reason we've not won a trophy for so long as a mixture of stubbornness, idealism and poor coaching has seen us fail.
It's a maddening combination.

[AKBapologist]

I like the fact that because I don't want Wenger replaced by a know nothing, won nothing, noboby I automatically believe he's beyond any criticism.

And my name is ironic, but then again based on some of your arguments I wouldn't expect the *grown ups* in here to even know what that means.