Match Reaction - Arsenal 1-2 Watford

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The real problem is that none of these principals....ie board members football writers even Arsene himself is a football fan. Football fans want to see their club do great things. Even fans of Torquay dream of winning their league and the FA cup. Fans dont take pride in fancy stadiums and great account balances. Only profiteers do that. None of the current board have Arsenal blood in their veins...least of all the mustachioed corporate raider whose slimy American hands we fell into. These sleazeballs will be quite happy to see another 13 years like the 13 that have gone before. " 2 FA cups...whats not to like?". While other clubs are winning titles and going into the last 4 of the CL dreaming of the big final. They tell us fans that we are spoilt. Why are we complaining?. What about West Ham and Everton fans?. Do we wish to swap places with them?

Fools just dont get it.

Football writers are mostly just shit stirring scum. Most support other clubs and pray silently that Wenger gets a new 10 year contract. They want him to stay because they too know he couldnt win a CL in 30 years of trying.

I'm not 100% convinced that the board are totally satisfied, they are just risk adverse

They believe with Wenger they are guaranteed a minimum outcome of champions league revenue with not exceptional amount of outlay to get it

I think at the same time they know whilst Arsenal are not winning things they are denied the same lucrative deals that may be available to bigger clubs, not only that but articles like that appreciate there is fan dissent even though they think fans should be more appreciative of Wenger....it's desperation because they know if the dissent continues it will have a negative impact with attracting sponsorship.

[Power n Glory]

People shouldn't be questioning the fans when it comes to turning up late or leaving early. I question why people turn up at all when this sort of shit keeps coming out of the Arsenal PR machine.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Shouldn't?

Firstly I'm not the one conflating the two issues, i don't think it's caused by the turgid football and neither do i think it causes the turgid football. Nor do i think it's an issue confined to Arsenal football club

Feel absolutely free not to contribute if you don't like that i have brought it up, you have made your feelings on the matter pretty clear.

Yes it's abundantly clear that John Cross has been employed to do Arsenal PR Spin, however i tend to think it may have the adverse effect that they hoped for. If the season goes belly up, fans have been given the distinct impression that kicking up a fuss will make poor Arsene feel unloved i think it's gone too far for fans to say "aww shucks we didn't mean it". And if he signs an extension (which is clearly what they are pushing for him to do) then we can dispense with any lingering pretence that the manager cares about anything other than self-enrichment.

[Power n Glory]

Shouldn't?

Firstly I'm not the one conflating the two issues, i don't think it's caused by the turgid football and neither do i think it causes the turgid football. Nor do i think it's an issue confined to Arsenal football club

Feel absolutely free not to contribute if you don't like that i have brought it up, you have made your feelings on the matter pretty clear.

Yes it's abundantly clear that John Cross has been employed to do Arsenal PR Spin, however i tend to think it may have the adverse effect that they hoped for. If the season goes belly up, fans have been given the distinct impression that kicking up a fuss will make poor Arsene feel unloved i think it's gone too far for fans to say "aww shucks we didn't mean it". And if he signs an extension (which is clearly what they are pushing for him to do) then we can dispense with any lingering pretence that the manager cares about anything other than self-enrichment.

Whatever. Argue now and do a 180 in a few weeks like you've just done on the whole debate about fans having an effective on revenue.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You again seem to have a problem where you are unable to look at things as a single issue and have to lump them all in together

Its reasonable to suggest that fans don't have the same affect on revenue that they had, with giant corporate deals and tv money that's an unfortunate fact. I've never suggested empty stadiums wouldn't be problematic for the club.

The issue about fans leaving early is again a single issue, I will concede that i don't agree with Moh that it had any bearing on our performance against Watford and therefore didn't seem particularly relevant to mention at the time. But i'm not going to pretend that i've never observed it when I constantly have and long before the frustration with Wenger grew (unless you are saying a majority of fans wanted Wenger out in 2007?)

A lot of my comments are openly ruminating, I have questioned whether a massive fan protest would affect the board's decision making (and actually i think i was probably wrong about that) and I have questioned whether the fans themselves would be engaged enough to begin a mass protest to begin with (and my point above stipulates that this kind of needling of the fans might well provoke such a situation that might not arise otherwise).

I feel with you that there is a resentment when anyone disagrees with you, I'm an argumentative individual for sure but i think you're being a bit precious when you seem to think i'm doing it with the intention of Trolling you.

I remember the main point of disagreement we had some time ago where I said getting rid of Wenger wouldn't necessarily reset things automatically and the board are just a big a part of the problem, that they have gone to such pains to protect their man rather gives credence to that view. It's not an argument for keeping Wenger, every time i hear even the snifter of a rumour of him signing a two year extension i let out a rueful sigh because i desperately want him gone and I simply cannot understand the rational of anyone who seems satisfied with how things are going.

[Power n Glory]

Its reasonable to suggest that fans don't have the same affect on revenue that they had, with giant corporate deals and tv money that's an unfortunate fact. I've never suggested empty stadiums wouldn't be problematic for the club.

Why was there a discussion on revenue in the first place? Because the idea was that Wenger may walk if he sees he's harming the club financially and can't take it any further. So why stretch the point any further to argue against that?

When you come back and make the following statement after watching you argue with Letters over sponsorship revenue vs fan attendance as if they're not linked...it's a moment.

fan dissent even though they think fans should be more appreciative of Wenger....it's desperation because they know if the dissent continues it will have a negative impact with attracting sponsorship.

Argumentative....yep. As said, after stretching an argument, you've just done a 180 and linked sponsorship deals back to the fans.

As for the fans leaving early talk....I don't care. Similar to how we got into the discussion about the difference between the opinions of fans online compared to the Emirates (see how that links), I'm not going to jump to conclusions on why people are leaving. I tend to look at what's going on at the club, question that and then ask why people aren't staying away if unsatisfied.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Why was there a discussion on revenue in the first place? Because the idea was that Wenger may walk if he sees he's harming the club financially and can't take it any further. So why stretch the point any further to argue against that?

When you come back and make the following statement after watching you argue with Letters over sponsorship revenue vs fan attendance as if they're not linked...it's a moment.



Argumentative....yep. As said, after stretching an argument, you've just done a 180 and linked sponsorship deals back to the fans.

As for the fans leaving early talk....I don't care. Similar to how we got into the discussion about the difference between the opinions of fans online compared to the Emirates (see how that links), I'm not going to jump to conclusions on why people are leaving. I tend to look at what's going on at the club, question that and then ask why people aren't staying away if unsatisfied.

Again this solipsist attitude, whether you care or not is irrelevant my observations aren't always directed at you.

Fine you don't care about that, i had stopped talking about it in regards to you....and in fact only did so again when you rather arrogantly suggested that people shouldn't discuss the matter (who the hell are you to tell people what they should or should not be talking about).

Right so what happens when a sponsor does a deal with Arsenal football club, is it not kind of common that this sponsor then appears on the advertising hoardings and would it not discourage sponsors if their company is appearing on billboards in a stadium which is either half empty or full of disgruntled fans which is clearly visible when our games appear on tv.

I would see your point if this was a new point i'd made, but have made it quite a few times. You can call it doing a 180 if you like but only because i get the impression you can only look at things as one single issue, rather than several myriad issues. Im not arguing that fans protesting will have no effect any more because i now believe i was wrong about that.....

This is not contradictory to saying the fans direct impact on revenue is not what it was.

But actually (if you are referring to the point i made earlier) i also made the point that the board might not be 100% happy because Wenger's lack of on field success means they are missing out on even more lucrative sponsorship deals.....It was making the point that the board will care if it hurts their wallets.

In regards to the fan's attitude, i am referring to the observations of Tim Stillman and my own personal observations, it's not all encompassing....i haven't in anyway suggested that it's solid fact. In fact i produced it in the first place as a hypothesis, that you are dismissive of it is of no concern to me that you seem fit to tell me that i shouldn't mention it in the first place i am laughably contemptuous of.