Ozil - Do we need him?

[Niall_Quinn]

No, in context of what we are talking. Effort in regards to making use of all of his attributes. Precisely his ability to dribble and you're purposely deflecting. It's funny how you make fun of Wenger when he relies on stats and now doing the exact same.

No I'm not deflecting anything. You are reflecting.

I proposed 2 options and you picked the one that stated Ozil was lazy. You made no doubt about your intent by adding the stealing a living qualifier. My first option was Wenger has fucked Ozil's game up but you didn't go for that one. That's the one that might have dealt with dribbling and other attributes. Instead you decided it's down to him being lazy. I said the numbers don't show that. You then accused me of being like Wenger. That's how this has gone down. The record is right there. Deflecting nothing.

[Power n Glory]

No I'm not deflecting anything. You are reflecting.

I proposed 2 options and you picked the one that stated Ozil was lazy. You made no doubt about your intent by adding the stealing a living qualifier. My first option was Wenger has fucked Ozil's game up but you didn't go for that one. That's the one that might have dealt with dribbling and other attributes. Instead you decided it's down to him being lazy. I said the numbers don't show that. You then accused me of being like Wenger. That's how this has gone down. The record is right there. Deflecting nothing.

Which brings us back to the question of why Sanchez and Ox dribble and Wenger hasn't altered their game? The contradiction in your theory is either Wenger gives the players too much freedom or he complete restricts them. Which is it?

[Niall_Quinn]

Which brings us back to the question of why Sanchez and Ox dribble and Wenger hasn't altered their game? The contradiction in your theory is either Wenger gives the players too much freedom or he complete restricts them. Which is it?

Not quite sure where all this dribbling business has come from. But are we now saying we don't need Ozil because he doesn't dribble enough? I'm just trying to keep track of your argument. One minute we hear Ozil doesn't turn up. Then we hear he's stealing a living. Now the problem is he doesn't dribble. Which is fine, because if that's the case I'm quickly going to say absolutely no, we shouldn't get rid of Ozil because he's not dribbling the ball enough. He does plenty of other things that we can't afford to be without right now, such as actually being able to keep possession of a football which is a rare commodity in the squad right now.

As for Wenger and Alexis' and Ox's games, well Wenger has change them of course. Alexis had until recently been moved to the striker role, and should still be there, and Ox had recently been moved into a central role. These things have worked, which makes you wonder why Wenger dumped Alexis for Giroud and why Ramsey ever got the nod over Ox. Probably because Wenger is incompetent. And this remains my argument. Option 1. Wenger is a moron. His shitty ideas on how we should play means we aren't getting the best out of any of the players.

I'm sticking with that too because it's what all the evidence points to.

[Power n Glory]

Not quite sure where all this dribbling business has come from. But are we now saying we don't need Ozil because he doesn't dribble enough? I'm just trying to keep track of your argument. One minute we hear Ozil doesn't turn up. Then we hear he's stealing a living. Now the problem is he doesn't dribble. Which is fine, because if that's the case I'm quickly going to say absolutely no, we shouldn't get rid of Ozil because he's not dribbling the ball enough. He does plenty of other things that we can't afford to be without right now, such as actually being able to keep possession of a football which is a rare commodity in the squad right now.

As for Wenger and Alexis' and Ox's games, well Wenger has change them of course. Alexis had until recently been moved to the striker role, and should still be there, and Ox had recently been moved into a central role. These things have worked, which makes you wonder why Wenger dumped Alexis for Giroud and why Ramsey ever got the nod over Ox. Probably because Wenger is incompetent. And this remains my argument. Option 1. Wenger is a moron. His shitty ideas on how we should play means we aren't getting the best out of any of the players.

I'm sticking with that too because it's what all the evidence points to.

This is exceptional. You talk on other threads about the 'modern player' lacking respect and slacking off but here with the clearest example of what Ozil would do for Madrid compared to his performances for us and you have nothing but excuses. Even turning to a Wenger old favourite about stats despite what your eyes tell you. It shouldn't be hard to work out why I like Alexis as a player but have a problem when someone as talented as Ozil isn't making use of his talent.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is exceptional. You talk on other threads about the 'modern player' lacking respect and slacking off but here with the clearest example of what Ozil would do for Madrid compared to his performances for us and you have nothing but excuses. Even turning to a Wenger old favourite about stats despite what your eyes tell you. It shouldn't be hard to work out why I like Alexis as a player but have a problem when someone as talented as Ozil isn't making use of his talent.

Well you keep changing the subject, so the discussion meanders along with it. Look, it's no secret you have some sort of agenda that singles out Ozil. That's blatantly obvious. But the question is, do we need him? Yes of course we do. We have 2, perhaps 3 world class players. Ozil is one of them. On form, off form, whether he's played, whether he's dropped, all different issues. Do we need him? Simple answer, yes. Complex answer, yes. And even if we suddenly freed up 200 mill to buy more world class talent in, do we still need Ozil? Yes. Because we want all our players to be world class in an ideal world.

There's only one person in this thread trying to find every possible angle to make a case. Ain't me.

[Power n Glory]

Well you keep changing the subject, so the discussion meanders along with it. Look, it's no secret you have some sort of agenda that singles out Ozil. That's blatantly obvious. But the question is, do we need him? Yes of course we do. We have 2, perhaps 3 world class players. Ozil is one of them. On form, off form, whether he's played, whether he's dropped, all different issues. Do we need him? Simple answer, yes. Complex answer, yes. And even if we suddenly freed up 200 mill to buy more world class talent in, do we still need Ozil? Yes. Because we want all our players to be world class in an ideal world.

There's only one person in this thread trying to find every possible angle to make a case. Ain't me.

Are you slow? You're able to work out what's being said. Cut the crap.

[Power n Glory]

Some agenda? Of course I have an agenda. I want all of our players toplay to the maximum of their potential. Maximum effort even if it's under a flawed manager. Is that not what you want?

[Niall_Quinn]

Are you slow? You're able to work out what's being said. Cut the crap.

What is it you need to hear? Agreement? I already said I don't agree with you. I said why I don't agree with you. And you haven't presented anything that encourages me to agree with you. My answer remains, yes, we need Ozil. I also stated I don't think he's a lazy player, because the numbers bear that out. I said he's a world class player, the best in the PL, and your video supports that opinion. I said he should be criticised if he's not playing to his maximum potential, but I also said every player suffers from not playing to their maximum potential. I gave the opinion that it's Wenger's fault the team isn't realising its potential. I stated, a while back, there are plenty of players we should look at before we start talking about getting rid of Ozil.

You show a video of Ozil setting the world on fire in a team stuffed with excellent players and managed by a competent person. Why do you feel Ozil should be playing the same way in a ramshackle mess of a system managed by an incompetent person? Nobody has been able to get our shitty system to work. We had Fabregas, RvC, Arshavin, Adebayor, a whole stack of talented players who tried to drag this team through to some sort of success and then gave up because it's futile. Maybe if you said it looks like Ozil has turfed it in I would agree. That's what I said myself in the last couple of match threads. Is it a good sign of character that his efforts have dropped? Nope. Is it time to sell him? Why? When the problem is the idiot who is constantly working against the whole team? Get rid of the idiot first and then reevaluate all the players, that's what I suggested. Seems like a sane position.

Who are you getting in if you chuck Ozil out? Somebody else who will try harder to overcome the handicap of Wenger? Who would that be? You said Fabregas would be a better option but in the end he wanted out? You yourself say you understand why RvC pissed off. So who will be the magic bullet that comes in and drives a transformation? I've often said even Messi wouldn't make a difference because the the task is just too big. The alternative is to get rid of players like Ozil and just let the quality of the squad ebb away. How does that help us?

No, whichever way I look at it I can't see any advantage to getting rid of Ozil. And you haven't given me anything even remotely convincing to change my view. Particularly this idea that Ozil has had 0/1 dribbles therefore is stealing a living.

The real issue here is we're flat track bullies. Our big players turn up against small opposition because that's all we can handle as a team. Wenger's tactics and planning are always shit but against a lesser opponent the individuals in our team can overcome and conquer. Carry the same handicap into the big games against the big opponents and the mountain is too tall to climb, especially while pushing a rock up it.

Wenger's got to go, not Ozil.