Match Reaction vs Stoke City (away)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This is like finding your favourite tune on the radio as the car is heading over the cliff. The fact is, if fans give it a rest then that will be immediately seized upon and exploited. Now is the time for fans to be more vocal than ever. By all means, have a cheer that the team is (eventually) winning a few (against very poor opposition it should be added), but the pressure on Wenger must be maintained if we want to translate these few wins into something useful down the line.

Also remember that the last significant test we faced in footballing terms (rather than psychological terms) was against the spuds. And we were played off the pitch. We absolutely needed a point in that game, at the very least. We failed.

What we are really seeing in these last few games is not progress - far, far, far from it. We are witnessing what is being spun into another glorious failure. 2% away. Almost did it. Nearly. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

And look at Wenger's team selections. He's learned fuck all.

Here's what the problem is. The standards of the fans have dropped and now approach Wenger's miserable standards. So we mistranslate what we SHOULD be doing anyway, but have failed to do all season, into some measure of success by comparison to a rancid benchmark.

Wenger deserves no credit whatsoever for this rather embarrassing run-in. All we can say, if we are being truthful, is he's a slightly less outrageous fuck-up than he had the potential to be over the course of this miserable season.

And we still aren't playing well by the way. Not by the standards we have set in the past. We are cheering because we have managed to get back to the very basics during limited phases of the last few matches. We can pass again. We can shoot again. We're even getting the odd cross into the box. Hallelujah. Our so-called rivals, that this abusive and money grabbing board suggested we'd be challenging by now, do all that without effort.

Keep the pressure on because failure to do so will mean failure guaranteed on the pitch. That's probably the outcome regardless, but it's worth fighting against it right up until Wenger's pen hits that contract - if for nothing else than to show that, no, we do not accept these shitty standards.

Being happy that we've won and seeing objectively that a system works is not the same as giving the manager credit

I saw the comments on here during and after the game, no-one called Wenger a tactical genius but we were all happy with the result because it's good to beat those horrible thuggish sub humans.

I don't always agree with P n G but he's absolutely right here, this and Wenger are two things that are totally divorced from each other. Refusing to be happy with a good result isn't less likely to make him stay, it's just perhaps that people want to extricate themselves from this awful, boring contract saga and enjoy a game of football....christ we've been unable to do that few enough times this season.

[Power n Glory]

Let's be fair though, what credit do the team deserve after such a poor season where they have pretty much failed every test they had and really only started getting a few results when the pressure was off and noone thought they had a hope of top 4 anyway?

I can't take these results seriously, because none of them were meaningful game, we were just trying to claw back a few points from the impossible position we put ourselves in and Liverpool finally put the idea that we might get top 4 to bed yesterday. Enjoy the games that's fine, but don't forget that ultimately we've failed so the pressure should not ease off the manager and the club....something that has certainly happened after 3 mere wins.

There are still talking points. I thought Coquelin played well and showed that he can more than just defend. Holding had another solid game, both wing backs did well. We don’t need to go overboard and make bold declarations but we’re talking about immediate reactions and assessment of a performance.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Because ultimately if you're unhappy about things you have to kick up a fuss and hope it works, keeping quiet guarantees no change, but at least is the fans revolts and skip matches etc there's a chance someone might take note (however small). If you put a manager under pressure he's more likely to jack it in at the end of the day, however if you let him have an easy ride and he wants to stay then he will.

Did the protest on Tuesday suddenly get cancelled as a result of the last three wins?

Is the Arsenal Supporters Trust no longer calling for the Manager to not be offered a new contract?

There are fans of clubs that are far more belligerent and harder to please than ours, and they will still celebrate when their team wins....otherwise what's the point?

[Niall_Quinn]

I see it differently. I have more of problem when you and Zim say Wenger is going to get a new deal anyway. If that’s the general feeling with fans, why keep up the protest? Why keep the pressure on if it’s out of our hands?

Let's look at it in a practical sense.

A couple of weeks back Le Grove was suggesting the Sunderland game would be a good target for fan protest, and gave a bunch of reasons why. A good plan, well reasoned, I thought.

Tomorrow the Sunderland game arrives. What should the fans do? Well, they should still boycott it, for all the reasons that existed before we grabbed a few wins and for all the same reasons that still exist and have not gone away.

But after these few wins what will happen? What are we going to see? That's not to suggest a boycott was a certainty anyway. We've already seen how lame so many of the fans are. No matter how badly you abuse them the wimps roll over and spread their arse cheeks.

It would be great if tomorrow's game turned into a sea of protest. And it would be right too. It'll be all smiles though, I bet, as we put mighty Sunderland to the sword.

And if we somehow manage to get a result against the chavs, you wait and see. All will be forgiven and forgotten and the giant reset button will be pressed and off we go again.

Best part of the Stoke game was the plane and the banner. Think planes and banners are stupid in general, but it seemed to be the only reminder that this guy has to go if this club stands any chance of doing more than wallpapering foundational cracks.

[Özim]

There are still talking points. I thought Coquelin played well and showed that he can more than just defend. Holding had another solid game, both wing backs did well. We don’t need to go overboard and make bold declarations but we’re talking about immediate reactions and assessment of a performance.

Coquelin has been poor all season though, one game doesn't change that, personally think he's not good enough. Holding has done well and has potential, as for the wing backs, yes they did well problem is there's no real pressure on these games, so it's hard to gauge, the real test is next season.

How many times have we seen this though, wins and decent performances at the end of a season when there's little to play for and then starting a new season and still be ing a shambles, just not convinced these improvement will translate into improvements next season.

It's hard to assess these performances in a similar way it would be in a friendly because these aren't representative of games that happen earlier on in a season when you have pressure and things to play for, you might argue we had the 4th spot to play for, but our chance always relied on other teams droping points, so to some degree the pressure was off.

[Özim]

Did the protest on Tuesday suddenly get cancelled as a result of the last three wins?

Is the Arsenal Supporters Trust no longer calling for the Manager to not be offered a new contract?

There are fans of clubs that are far more belligerent and harder to please than ours, and they will still celebrate when their team wins....otherwise what's the point?

I definitely think everything is much more subdued, which I understand, the problem is you can see the manager clearly feels under less pressure now, his attitude in pres conferences is testament to that, he's now defending our points total and citing progress in the same sentence and in the last few matches has been talking about togetherness and mental strength which is ridiculous.

You can celebrate when you win, but that doesn't stop you from still maintaining the same line as you do when we lose, which is his time is up and change of tactics and a few wins changes nothing, seems to me that although people might well think that, it's no longer coming across to the club.

[Power n Glory]

Because ultimately if you're unhappy about things you have to kick up a fuss and hope it works, keeping quiet guarantees no change, but at least is the fans revolts and skip matches etc there's a chance someone might take note (however small). If you put a manager under pressure he's more likely to jack it in at the end of the day, however if you let him have an easy ride and he wants to stay then he will.

It’s a catch 22. I’m happy to see when the team play well but I want Wenger gone. If we win on Tuesday should I be booing from the stands even if I feel more loses could result in him getting the boot? I’m actually hoping we finish outside of the Top 4 but I won’t be pissed off if we win our games.

But again, if you feel it’s out of our hands, why be vocal? Why should the fans be booing at the games if you feel Wenger is on for a new contract?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I definitely think everything is much more subdued, which I understand, the problem is you can see the manager clearly feels under less pressure now, his attitude in pres conferences is testament to that, he's now defending our points total and citing progress in the same sentence and in the last few matches has been talking about togetherness and mental strength which is ridiculous.

You can celebrate when you win, but that doesn't stop you from still maintaining the same line as you do when we lose, which is his time is up and change of tactics and a few wins changes nothing, seems to me that although people might well think that, it's no longer coming across to the club.

I definitely think you're full of shit

You are basing this opinion because fans aren't like you, and P n G mentions the Le Grove blogger you remind me of the term he coins "grief porn". I don't think bad results annoy you, they seem to be your sustenance. For fans who go week in, week out however maybe just maybe they don't get high on the same misery as you do and just want to see a good game of football and be able to suspend for a few hours the bigger context.

Football is a form of escapism after all, this idea that you need to reaffirm with every sentence that you want Wenger to go or somehow you are perpetuating the cycle is the kind of nonsense that only an armchair fan could come out with.

I think the boycott of the Sunderland game is a good idea, and you have nothing but pure supposition to suggest that people won't go along with it just because of what happened on Saturday

[Niall_Quinn]

Did the protest on Tuesday suddenly get cancelled as a result of the last three wins?

Is the Arsenal Supporters Trust no longer calling for the Manager to not be offered a new contract?

There are fans of clubs that are far more belligerent and harder to please than ours, and they will still celebrate when their team wins....otherwise what's the point?

Effectively, I bet yes.

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s a catch 22. I’m happy to see when the team play well but I want Wenger gone. If we win on Tuesday should I be booing from the stands even if I feel more loses could result in him getting the boot? I’m actually hoping we finish outside of the Top 4 but I won’t be pissed off if we win our games.

But again, if you feel it’s out of our hands, why be vocal? Why should the fans be booing at the games if you feel Wenger is on for a new contract?

That's about it.

Which is why a boycott is a good idea. I don't think the players would take that personally and they'd know what the score is. And nobody should be booing the team, unless they are serving up shite. So 90 minutes of "We want Wenger out..." would be the order of the day, for those who won't stay away.

Doubt we'll see any of it though. After this season, I think the fans are so desperate for any crumb of comfort, that crumb becomes a feast.