Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Niall_Quinn]

You're just doing it again. Defending Wenger at every turn, but maybe you can't see it. There's always a perfectly reasonable explanation for his deceit, his failure, his bullshit. If you know it's a lie but it costs you to call it a lie, at least don't repeat the lie. And, FFS, don't embellish. Maybe you haven't listened to Wenger's latest round of bullshit from the AGM. Fans are running around agreeing what a decent bloke Wenger is, how he's a human shield for the board. How it's so unfair. That's how you come across too. But the evidence tells us that Wenger is a liar and up to his neck in it with the very same scumbags that are running the club into the ground.

Here's my take. Kroenke and Wenger are devious cunts, genuinely self absorbed, self interested, almost psychopathic manipulators. The real human shield used to be Peter Hill Wood, rolled out to take the bullets that would otherwise have been aimed and Silent Stan and his sidekick Wenger. And because Hill Wood's brain always comes a distant third in a straight race with his mouth and sense of superiority, he's guaranteed to be a lead magnet. Well I guess they saw this and then, instead of correcting the mistake, they hire something even better - Keswick. A guy who was born in a boardroom, not able to conduct himself in a boardroom? Pull the other one. Everyone is being played nicely. And they are all in it together. Particularly this Wenger bloke you feel compelled to defend. Particularly him.

What does John Cross have to say about all this? Oh look, Kroenke loves Arsenal and isn't silent at all, Wenger is a class act, and Keswick is a buffoon. They love it when a plan comes together.

[Niall_Quinn]

BTW, the link I added to a video of Wenger's AGM speech (posted earlier in this thread)...

...was from 2011.

Not sure if nobody bothered looking or if people just didn't notice. But there he is, all the same old bullshit being trotted out. A decent bloke who loves the club... Let me tell you, this squad will be successful... The future looks bright... I am 100% ready to challenge, more enthusiastic and focused than ever...

I mean, yawn. He's making the same speech six years later, we've dropped out of the CL, by the summer we'll have the most mediocre squad we've had in years having lost our best players again, this time without even the usual profit. And the atmosphere at the club and among the fans is as toxic as it has ever been. But same speech, same promises. And some fans are still buying this? I wish I knew how to hook up with them so I could sell them time travel machines and invisibility cloaks and party packs of empty promises.

[Cripps]

You're just doing it again. Defending Wenger at every turn

What's hilarious is that he can't see it

[Letters]

You're just doing it again. Defending Wenger at every turn, but maybe you can't see it.

There's nothing to see.
There are very few managers if any who tell the truth in these situations. It's like when Wenger comes out saying that <insert player here> is class, or we showed great spirit or whatever.
All balls, obvious balls. But is it only Wenger who does it? Of course not. Is he worse than the others? Arguably.

[Özim]

If Wenger had been deified to any real extent then the people who supported him six years ago wouldn’t have turned against him now.

There are a few who do think he is incapable of wrong doing, but such people are what Nietzsche would call untermensch (not to be mistaken with the Nazi use of that word to refer to Jews, gypsies etc). Not enough of them to merit any real serious discussion.

No the difference was I didn’t start going round insulting the fan base or calling Wenger the worst manager the club has ever had. Not because I was frightened of provoking anyone, but because I don’t personally believe either things.

But from 2012 I pushed for Klopp to replace Wenger as well as mentioning other names. Did I sometimes get people accuse me of reacting to bad results? Yes but of course I was....

I never insulted the fan base, all I said was that whilst the fans keep going and don't really kick up a massive fus, nothing will change and it won't, surely you can see that. As for Wenger, yes I do think all in he is an awful manager (maybe not the worst ever) but a bad one, that's taking everything into consideration of course, the lies, the football, the claims of success because we came 3rd/4th, the patronising words etc etc the list goes on, this isn't some guy just managing the team and doing a bad job, this is the guy managing the club and doing a bad job on the grand scheme of things, if he wasn't the fans wouldn't be unhappy.

Yes perhaps you did, but these were very never particularly convincing calls for a new manager, you'd say that Klopp could replace Wenger and you'd like him to, without really saying Wenger needs to go because he's doing a poor job, you've ramped up your opinion in the last couple years for sure, but before that it never seemed a particularly urgent call for a new manager.

[Özim]

And that's not even close to being an extreme view because look at the glaring evidence.

As you say - Theo Walcott.

But what about players with ambition? Cesc, RvC, Ozil, Alexis. Even Ox, who could have easily done a Theo. All gone or looking for the exit - even when big money has been put on the table.

Who creates the environment where mediocrity is a free ride for your whole career? The guy who has had a free ride for over a decade.

This is all so obvious and the only aspect that is extreme is the amount of time fans have put up with it.

Lacazette is next. Wenger is already mismanaging him in the most ridiculous manner. He'll be looking for the exit in a couple of seasons, all the while bitterly regretting he ever came here. You could see it all over his face when he got subbed, again, on the weekend.

And who will want to come? Losers. Not winners.

It's crazy to even have to talk about this. The guy is fucking up on every front and needs to be sacked, urgently, before any more damage can be done. It's just crazy we are in this situation and scary that Wenger can't see it and, despite the mountain of evidence in front of him, thinks he can reverse the ongoing decline. He won't change anything, won't accept help, won't learn from his mistakes and can't even recognise the problems. This is the worst man imaginable to be in charge of a competitive sports team. If anyone thinks that's an "extreme" opinion they should explain why, without bringing up what happened over a decade ago and somehow suggesting any of that is relevant to what's happening here and now.

Exactly and that's why I feel he's an awful manager, stuff like this together with his behaviour towards fans, hollow words and claims of success, it's not just the football (which in itself is boring) or the results which are often scraped wins, it's the whole package.

[Özim]

I'd say that things like "Another pathetic result" from Zim after a win is pretty extreme.
Pathetic performance, maybe, but result? Silly.
I think it's extreme to say that we have an "awful manager" and an "average squad". Those cannot both be simultaneously true given the league positions and FA Cup wins in the last 4 years.
I think you've said he's the "worst manager in football" which seems extreme to me and I think someone might have said he's the worst manager we've ever had. I might have made that last one up but I think I saw it.
To me those are all extreme views which I would argue against.
But, and let me say this slowly, doing so does not mean I am "sucking Wenger's cock" (as tasty as it admittedly is).
It doesn't mean I'm secretly Wenger In as you and Zim seem to believe.
And it doesn't mean I think Wenger is the "bees knees" (recent quote from you).
And, for balance, I think Ty is pretty extreme in the other direction although we don't have any posters like that on here. I am often accused of being like that but I think in your more serious moments must realise I'm not.

I recently argued against Zim when he said that it doesn't matter how Wenger does. It does. He would be replaced if he failed, but he hasn't. Unfortunately it is not you or I who defined what failure is, it's the board and it's clear what their priorities are. I know what it's like to be a fan, I was a season ticket for over 20 years. And you're right, you can't just go to another shop. But you can stop shopping, watches the games on telly if you want - or, better, internet streams if you still can - but stop buying tickets, stop buying the shirts. You don't have to stop supporting the club. If you miss the atmosphere then go watch the games in a pub with the same mates you used to go to games with. You can protest outside the ground but what do they care about that? You can protest inside but to do they they've got your money so will they care then? If we agree they only care about money then that is the only thing we, the fanbase, can do to affect change. We have the collective power. Trouble is there are too many tourists anyway to make up the numbers so I don't think it's realistic but I don't know what else can be done to affect change.

Let me explain that comment, I felt it was pathetic because yet again it was another scraped win, a scraped win in a long line of them, most of the time now we win but in reality the game could have gone either way, unconvincing, Swansea had their chance to go 2-0 and could have got a 2-2 but they didn't, we scraped to a win like we often do, rather than winning by 3 or 4 goals (which rarely seems to happen).

As for Wenger, he's not delivering anything, maybe it's the way he talks or maybe it's the fact Kroenke doesn't care about football and only about profits, or maybe it's the fact the stadium is largely full (despite the sky high prices and poor entertainment), the latter is due more to fan loyalty and tourists who think it's fashionable to come to the Emirates rathe than Wenger.

What's clear is he's not delivering in any true sense, the owner might be happy, fact is though he would be under almsot any manager because the money will keep rolling in at Arsenal, it's the nature of the club, full houses are a gimme, it would be hard not to deliver that.

[Özim]

This is the straw man. Literally no-one does that on here. You may accuse me of doing so because I don't agree with your more extreme views about him but if you look at what I'm actually writing you'll find I'm not. Nor is anyone else.

I didn't say it was anyone on here, but there are plenty of peope who go to matches who seem him as irreplaceable, deflect the blame onto others and think it's not his fault, to them he's amazing, untouchable...ignoring that though I was referring to the years and years he's been praised and credited for all the things he's done, even when it's been going wrong getting little criticism with many preferring to blame the money in the game, the owner, the referees etc etc.

[Özim]

There's nothing to see.
There are very few managers if any who tell the truth in these situations. It's like when Wenger comes out saying that <insert player here> is class, or we showed great spirit or whatever.
All balls, obvious balls. But is it only Wenger who does it? Of course not. Is he worse than the others? Arguably.

That's a copout, very few managers treat fans like Wenger does, or indeed point the finger at them, they know it's a bad idea, at Arsenal though you can point the finger at the fans with no repercussions and actually have some people agree it's their fault, it's totally ridiculous!

The amount of nonsense he comes out with though, not sure there's many managers out there who speak so much rubbish, he has people looking at each in disbelief at some of the stuff he says, defending Keswick the other day sums him up, the guy could easily refrain from commenting (easy to do) but know instead he decides to defend Keswick, unbelievable!

We've been told a lot of things over the years, how much has actuallly come to fruition, his condascending, pratronising manner doesn't help either, he talks like he always knows best, despite evidence to the contrary, some of the mistkes he makes wouldn't be made by a pub team manager.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

More importantly though unless you’re a snowflake little girl, it shouldn’t even matter what Letters said

And I think considering he’s given you a platform to air your views, a little mockery even if you think the mockery itself doesn’t make sense shouldn’t really be harmful.

Letters to my knowledge used to be Wenger in up to 2016, and then thought fuck it this isn’t working. He’s come late to the party.....,but it seems bizarre to me that you’re accusing him of clamping down on what you’re posting and then constantly questioning him for expressing his own views.

Even if I think my opinions could only be disagreed with by an absolute imbecile, I don’t resent people for disagreeing or even being disdainful.