League cup final match reaction

[Power n Glory]

My thoughts this morning?

This manager and group of players, and the lattter's previous incarnations have pretty much destroyed any enthusiasm or passion that I have for the game. Still I bothered to watch yesterday, and what I saw simply confirmed - for the thousanth time - what we have all known for years. Whatever Wenger's achievements - now well over a decade ago - let's all be honest, are ancient history. Since we moved to the Emirates, supporting Arsenal has been, overall, various degrees of disappointment and abject misery. We talk about Wenger tarnishing his legacy. What a joke. It was tarnished years ago, when he lost his drive; innovation; commitment and ability to be the best.

His players are a direct reflection of the manager. I can honestly say that I have no love or respect for any of them. not a single one. There is no one who has any passion for the club or commitment to the cause, and this has transmitted directly to the supporters. Yesterday encapsulated the feeling that we are left with. Embarassment at being aan Arsenal fan. I don't give a shit about relative league positions. What the fans of Huddersfield; Southampton; Swansea have is en element of player and manager responsibility and engagement that can still be discerned from time to time - nothwithstanding the overall strength of their teams. We don't - and we haven't had this for years. I don't blame Wenger for not winning the league since 2004. I don't blame him for lack of European success or dispute that the FA Cups have provided momentary relief from the gloom. What I blame him for is leeching the joy out of being a Gooner and taking away something that used to mean so much to me. I resent the fact that for years I have had to be apologetic about being an Arsenal fan.

Back when I used to post regularly on here - perhaps 7 or 8 years ago - I remember asking whether this was it. Whether the 'glory days' of being a big, significant club were over an whether we would look back on the early 00's in the way fans of once big, but now mediocre teams regard their heyday. Seeing our ignominious decline gathering increasing momentum, and knowing what the ownership structure of our club is, it is very, very difficuult today to have any faith that we will ever again be what we were.

Sorry for what may be regarded as over the top pessimism, but this is what Wenger and his bunch of closeted and over-indulged muppets have left me.

8 – 9 years since being a regular poster!? Good to see you post again, but not under these circumstances. We’re in a terrible state and your post sums it up. The fans have been robbed and the passion has been sucked away. People are disengaging.

[IBK]

8 – 9 years since being a regular poster!? Good to see you post again, but not under these circumstances. We’re in a terrible state and your post sums it up. The fans have been robbed and the passion has been sucked away. People are disengaging.

its been 3/4 years for me...7/8 since I posed the question. I come on here from time to time, but the issue for me is that our groundhog day situation means that its almost impossible to fine anything new to say about our situation. Players come in, others leave, but the truth is that we have been treading water for 10 years now, and the only change over the past couple of seasons is that FA Cups aside we are now sinking with increasing rapidity. Bad times

[Niall_Quinn]

its been 3/4 years for me...7/8 since I posed the question. I come on here from time to time, but the issue for me is that our groundhog day situation means that its almost impossible to fine anything new to say about our situation. Players come in, others leave, but the truth is that we have been treading water for 10 years now, and the only change over the past couple of seasons is that FA Cups aside we are now sinking with increasing rapidity. Bad times

On the plus side, the owners, manager and players are all doing very well financially. So it's not all doom and gloom. Some of us questionably "real" fans (according to Hector) remember a time when diehards like Sammy Nelson earned a few hundred a week for slogging through mud and spilling blood. If you didn't fight for the shirt you were back working in Fords come Monday. Clubs owned your arse and agents only appeared in Bond movies. Hector's probably too busy putting up with poxy fans and managing all that money they throw at him to put in a Nelson style shift.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hector! Read this:

When Kevin Keegan joined Liverpool from Scunthorpe in May 1971, Bill Shankly’s first wage offer was £45 per week. In his 1977 autobiography, Keegan recalled: ‘I wanted to sign there and then but remembered that my father had told me not to sell myself cheap.’ Keegan told Shankly he expected more than £45. Shankly replied: ‘That’s upsetting. Don’t forget, young man, we’re paying £33,000 for you.’ Keegan’s basic wage at Scunthorpe, in the old Fourth Division, had been £30 a week, with £8 win bonus and £4 draw bonus. Keegan and Shankly eventually settled on a starting wage of £50 a week at Liverpool. Regular first-team football, appearance money and win bonuses added £80 a week to that basic figure, for £130 a week for one of England’s best players at one of its biggest clubs.

Btw, £130 in today's dosh, adjusted for inflation, is £1,800. So happy days Hector!

[Özim]

No real surprise at the result today, despite some Arsenal fans being deluded and thinking we can beat City, it was never going to happen, very different animal to last season to be honest, they're a much better side and more importantly league ahead of us, just look at the difference in points in the league.

We got outclassed, just like 2nd tier teams are usually outclassed by top teams, sad thing is they didn't even need to get out of 2nd gear, it was a stroll in the park for them, a Sunday afternoon park.

The chickens are finally coming home to roost, Wengers' luck has at last run out, no more relying on those lucky breaks to save his season, it's been coming for years to be honest, but time and time again he been given a 2nd chance, a manager who is average on every level is being shown up for what he is.

As for the team, where do we start, probably the most overrated team in football, lacks quality in so many areas, goalkeeper, defence, midfield all lacking, youth setup is dreadful with no decent players coming through on top of that, despite years big investment.

Club is a mess from top to bottom, this could have easily been avoided if we'd waved goodbye to Wenger years ago, sadly he's had blind support for so long which has helped keep him in the job, in the end this is what it has come to, a shell of the great club it once was, Wenger will be remembered for being the man who turned this club into the horrible thing it is today, what a great legacy!

[Letters]

On the plus side, the owners, manager and players are all doing very well financially. So it's not all doom and gloom. Some of us questionably "real" fans (according to Hector) remember a time when diehards like Sammy Nelson earned a few hundred a week for slogging through mud and spilling blood. If you didn't fight for the shirt you were back working in Fords come Monday. Clubs owned your arse and agents only appeared in Bond movies. Hector's probably too busy putting up with poxy fans and managing all that money they throw at him to put in a Nelson style shift.

NQ and Letters in "Agreeing about something" shock exclusive. This is the trouble with giving players too much, too young. Where's the incentive? There's no consequence if we don't win, couple of years in the game and they're set for life. It's a problem in society generally, it's all about instant success - X Factor et al. No-one feels they have to work at anything any more.
I'm generalising and exaggerating somewhat but it is a problem and is part of what has ruined football.

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ and Letters in "Agreeing about something" shock exclusive. This is the trouble with giving players too much, too young. Where's the incentive? There's no consequence if we don't win, couple of years in the game and they're set for life. It's a problem in society generally, it's all about instant success - X Factor et al. No-one feels they have to work at anything any more.
I'm generalising and exaggerating somewhat but it is a problem and is part of what has ruined football.

They're overworked. They need a winter break like Ozil has. And more money. They always need more money.

[IBK]

NQ and Letters in "Agreeing about something" shock exclusive. This is the trouble with giving players too much, too young. Where's the incentive? There's no consequence if we don't win, couple of years in the game and they're set for life. It's a problem in society generally, it's all about instant success - X Factor et al. No-one feels they have to work at anything any more.
I'm generalising and exaggerating somewhat but it is a problem and is part of what has ruined football.

It also has to be about OUR manager though. We have all commented on how Wenger seems to lack ruthlessness with our underperforming players, and our team's performances in games like yesterday (and countless others - most recently the Europa league game last Thursday) demonstrate that he appears to be incapable of incentivising them consistently. There is also an element of our players appearing not to believe in his methods anymore. While Citeh didn't have to move through the gears, Guardiola doesn't seem to have that problem with his high earning playes. With all teams there will be the odd match where players don't perform, but Arsenal seem to have cornered the market for consistent lack of focus and desire.

[LDG]

NQ and Letters in "Agreeing about something" shock exclusive. This is the trouble with giving players too much, too young. Where's the incentive? There's no consequence if we don't win, couple of years in the game and they're set for life. It's a problem in society generally, it's all about instant success - X Factor et al. No-one feels they have to work at anything any more.
I'm generalising and exaggerating somewhat but it is a problem and is part of what has ruined football.

Money is a problem, but I don't think its all down to that. It's about motivation. Doesn't matter how much money you have, if you're a professional footballer, it's usually because you were the best or one of the best at it in your club, town, region....country.

In order to be the best, you need to work hard. Some notable exceptions like Matt LeTissier, maybe, but in the most part, a degree of effort is required. And effort comes from motivation. The motivation at Chelsea last year, and Man City this, is to win trophies.

The motivation at Arsenal is non-existent, because the priorities and standards set by the board, and implemented by the manager aren't about being the best. They are about being nearly there.

Of course, you need somebody managing the side who has a fucking clue about how to set up a team tactically, but you need to motivate them too. Money isn't a motivator, as they already have enough of it. So what does that leave you with? Ego. Fucking make them want to flaunt their medals, league titles. Make them have fans adore them, sing their name etc.

Anyway, societies problems (in this respect) stem from people thinking they deserve something without having to work for it. Professional footballers have already put the effort in to attain the wage (whether it's disgusting paying someone that much or not). We just have no fucker telling them how to respect the game, respect the supporters, respect themselves.

[Letters]

I don't think Wenger not being a good motivator is new news.
Our best teams under him had a strong captain on the pitch to do that, Adams then Vieira.
We haven't really had a proper captain since.