The next manager..

[dazthegooner]

Think we will probably end up with Arteta maybe he can bring Pep as his number 2...

[IBK]

I think I'm leaning towards Arteta as my first choice for Emery's replacement? Reputations and past successes seem to count for less and less these days, and I really think that clubs need to start looking for more tailored fits for their first team coaching roles. Arteta feels like he's a fit for us. He's an Arsenal man, he gets the prestige of being here, he knows a lot of the people at the club who he'd be working with, and I think he understands what the fans want - ultimately success will be defined by the fans' approval, so that last point is a pretty big one. Plus he seems like a great communicator and a big personality, who I think the players will respond to and will want to play for. My biggest gripe with Emery is that he has absolutely zero charism and does nothing to inspire anyone at the club. He's a terrible man-manager who can barely communicate with his players (or the fans) and everything he tries to get across is either confusing or painfully uninspired.

I do have some concerns over whether Arteta could oversee raising the standard of our defending (although I suppose he can't really do much fucking worse), but then I also think that these are things that should really be addressed at a more fundamental level within the club? Being able to defend to an even basic level really doesn't feel like it should be something that's contingent on whoever we happen to have as a first team coach at any given moment - we should be making independent, permanent hires to our long-term coaching staff to work on that (and hopefully we'll have some scope to do it once Emery's useless entourage departs).

Oddly enough, I'm not as keen on Allegri as an option, in spite of his reputation as a defensive genius. I'm not sure his English is meant to be that great, and I seem to remember talk of him wanting to bring a big team of his own people with him and a big budget to overhaul the squad, neither of which we should be offering. Could be great, but then he could be another Emery who ends up costing a fortune and alienating all the players.

Don't see Pocchettino as a realistic option. Even if the Arsenal-sp*rs thing is irrelevent to him, I think he'll probably feel like he's done his stint developing a young side for now, and will fancy a shot at instant success in his next move. That's not going to be us - the biggest selling point we'll have to offer him is that he won't have to move!

What a good post. I want Emery gone more than anyone, but I think we need to be realistic and lateral thinking about who replaces him if the club does what I want and takes decisive action now.

We are a club in a lot of turmoil ATM. The current set up has lost the fans, and IMHO this is in the main down to the personality and approach of a manager who clearly has limited man management/motivational skills and whose negativity, stubbornness and cowardice have transferred themselves to his players. There is no joy, fight or self-belief in a team constantly set up in fear of even the lowliest opposition. And this has alienated a fan base that up until our craven capitulation at the end of last season were broadly supportive of Emery.

We are not going to find a proven world-beater mid season to manage our team, and we need to understand that there is no instant fix to where we find ourselves. I think we need modest aspirations at this stage. Firstly, to find clarity and identity in the way we play. We need to an extent to go back to basics in a more settled set up where the players understand what they are doing. Second we need a manager who can understand and connect with the fans - and appreciate the traditions and pride of our club. Third (and I think this is more controversial) we need to focus on performances more than top-four finishes or where are so-called competitors are, and I think that a more 'modest' appointment - if the other bases are covered - could counteract the obvious and choking pressure that is inhibiting us at present. For an example - look at most of our Europa League/cup performances this season. Until lately there was a freshness and exuberance in our play that contrasted with our league form.

I think Arteta could tick all of these boxes, and be our Lampard. He would bring goodwill that is sorely needed, and from what I hear he could give us some freshness and self-belief. Yes he would be a risk, but again, I don't see anyone available at present who would be otherwise, and maybe a less 'illustrious' appointment would give us a bit of time and space to steady the ship.

[Niall_Quinn]

What a good post. I want Emery gone more than anyone, but I think we need to be realistic and lateral thinking about who replaces him if the club does what I want and takes decisive action now.

We are a club in a lot of turmoil ATM. The current set up has lost the fans, and IMHO this is in the main down to the personality and approach of a manager who clearly has limited man management/motivational skills and whose negativity, stubbornness and cowardice have transferred themselves to his players. There is no joy, fight or self-belief in a team constantly set up in fear of even the lowliest opposition. And this has alienated a fan base that up until our craven capitulation at the end of last season were broadly supportive of Emery.

We are not going to find a proven world-beater mid season to manage our team, and we need to understand that there is no instant fix to where we find ourselves. I think we need modest aspirations at this stage. Firstly, to find clarity and identity in the way we play. We need to an extent to go back to basics in a more settled set up where the players understand what they are doing. Second we need a manager who can understand and connect with the fans - and appreciate the traditions and pride of our club. Third (and I think this is more controversial) we need to focus on performances more than top-four finishes or where are so-called competitors are, and I think that a more 'modest' appointment - if the other bases are covered - could counteract the obvious and choking pressure that is inhibiting us at present. For an example - look at most of our Europa League/cup performances this season. Until lately there was a freshness and exuberance in our play that contrasted with our league form.

I think Arteta could tick all of these boxes, and be our Lampard. He would bring goodwill that is sorely needed, and from what I hear he could give us some freshness and self-belief. Yes he would be a risk, but again, I don't see anyone available at present who would be otherwise, and maybe a less 'illustrious' appointment would give us a bit of time and space to steady the ship.

I think there's an element of contradiction in what you are saying. Understanding the pride of the fans kind of does mean chasing top 4 instead of breeding a winner's mentality. That's the root of the problem. For a decade the club and the manager told us top 4 was a trophy and an unhealthy segment of the fanbase agreed with that wholeheartedly. That's where the loser mentality embedded itself and started to rot the entire club. Second best (or 4th best) became acceptable on every level, acceptable not just with the club but also many of the fans. That's what needs to be halted, reversed and eradicated and I see no significant signs of it so far. We still have fans saying if Emery doesn't get top 4 he can go.

None of us have firm information about what's going on inside the club. Have the owners resolved to compete at the top level? For real? Their recent transfer spending, to a degree, hints they might be thinking about it. Then again, their net spend still suggests the sustainability nonsense that simply isn't realistic in the modern game. It just isn't. Even mid table clubs are taking risks on spending. Whatever, we'll need the owners fully committed if we are serious about clawing a route back to the top. (Top means #1, not #4 - we need to get that right at least).

Is the manager here to compete for the top prizes? Or is he protecting his contract by aiming for a pre-determined target, let me guess, top 4 within 2 years? If that's what we have here then we've lost before we start. It's just a continuation of Wenger's reign.

Are the players committed to winning or are they here for the salaries and the shop window? Have the losers been purged and the winners retained? Are our star players now locked in for the future? Will we make the same mistakes again? Doesn't look so good from here.

My point is, you can bring anyone in and maybe they'll even give us a bump in results for a while. But if they aren't coming here to change the whole culture, WITH the support and absolute commitment of the owners, WITH the support and absolute commitment of the staff, WITH the support and and absolute commitment of the players - what difference will a new guy really be able to make? We'll just end up back in the same hole, gloriously failing at the critical moments against more resolute and cohesive opponents. We've seen it all before.

Going back to the fans, I can't say I rate them much given their attitude over the last months. Many of them seem to think it's just a case of lucky dip. Keep hiring players and managers until it magically clicks. Find some guru who can single-handedly turn it all around. How long did it take Jurgen "Flopp" - remember when people were calling him that? How much money? Pep, of course, had a fortune available from the outset. These two, like it or not, represent the pinnacle of the competition right now and they are a thousand miles clear of anyone else. How will we compete with that? Are we even trying to compete at that level?

The fans could do with calming down a bit, stepping back from the building media click frenzy and asking some simple questions, not just of the manager, but the owners, the staff, the players and themselves. Is everyone in this together to win? If the answer isn't yes, across the board, then sure, sack the manager. Gives us something to talk about but that's all really. Seems to me that Emery (a guy I didn't want here tbh) is carrying the whole can for owners who watched the club rot, players that took the piss and fans that boo their own captain off the field. He deserves a fair share of criticism - a fair share. Nobody should still be getting a free ride here though.

I've worked in organisations that were complacent and badly run. It's almost pointless trying to excel in those places. I've also worked in places that buzzed with the energy of everyone hitting goals and targets. Both are infectious. The former is very hard to turn around.

[Özim]

I think I'm leaning towards Arteta as my first choice for Emery's replacement? Reputations and past successes seem to count for less and less these days, and I really think that clubs need to start looking for more tailored fits for their first team coaching roles. Arteta feels like he's a fit for us. He's an Arsenal man, he gets the prestige of being here, he knows a lot of the people at the club who he'd be working with, and I think he understands what the fans want - ultimately “success” will be defined as whatever the fans decide it is, so that last point is a pretty big one. Plus he seems like a great communicator and a big personality, who I think the players will respond to and will want to play for. My biggest gripe with Emery is that he has absolutely zero charisma and does nothing to inspire anyone at the club. He's a terrible man-manager who can barely communicate with his players (or the fans) and everything he tries to get across is either confusing or painfully uninspired.

I do have some concerns over whether Arteta could oversee raising the standard of our defending (although I suppose he can't really do much fucking worse), but then I also think that these are things that should really be addressed at a more fundamental level within the club? Being able to defend to an even basic level really doesn't feel like it should be something that's contingent on whoever we happen to have as a first team coach at any given moment - we should be making independent, permanent hires to our long-term coaching staff to work on that (and hopefully we'll have some scope to do it once Emery's useless entourage departs with him).

Oddly enough, I'm not as keen on Allegri as an option, in spite of his reputation as a defensive genius. I'm not sure his English is meant to be that great, and I seem to remember talk of him wanting to bring a big team of his own people with him and a big budget to overhaul the squad, neither of which we should be offering. Could be great, but then he could be another Emery who ends up costing a fortune and alienating all the players.

Don't see Pocchettino as a realistic option. Even if the Arsenal-sp*rs thing is irrelevent to him, I think he'll probably feel like he's done his stint developing a young side for now, and will fancy a shot at instant success in his next move. That's not going to be us - the biggest selling point we'll have to offer him is that he won't have to move!

I just don't think Arteta is the right guy

He's not really an Arsenal man though is he, yes he played for us, but he hardly excelled and to be honest spend long spells out injured, he wasn't a fan favourite and was only made captain because Wenger decided it and there was noone who was captain material anyway. During his spell we weren't successful at all, so to say he understands success is stretching the truth, we were pretty average whilst he was here, he was neither a great communicator or big personnality either, he seemed more like a mouse if I'm honest, didn't speak much, didn't stand up and be counted on the pitch, didn't motivate thoses around him, he wasn't much of a captain IMO.

Now sure reputations/past successes aren't everything, but management experience does mean something, this guy hasn't managed at all, he did take over 1 match when Guardiola wasn't around but City lost that, if we're going to take a punt surely someone like Vieira who has managed and has done a decent job is a better bet, he'll also certainly get more respect from fans and players alike. Without wanting to sound harsh, Arteta is a nobody, he was a middle of the road player whose best days were at Everton, at Arsenal he was mediocre and not even really a starter, but besides that he's just an assistant manager and there's plenty of great assistant managers (better than Arteta) who have tried their hand at management and failed miserably, let's not forget that City's success can hardly be attributed to him when Guardiola had been winning at Barca and Bayern without him.

No, I think he's be a terrible choice for all the reasons stated, this isn't the kind of appointment a club of our stature makes, a championship club or lower division club might take a punt, but not a big PL club, the fact we're even contemplating this guy just show how small time we are to be honest and it's a bit embarrassing that this club would consider him. Given the last 15 years and last 2 managers you would think the club would learn their lesson and bring someone established in, yes it doesn't guarantee success, but statistically there's far more chance of success with someone like this than a guy with no management experience.

I really don't understand why anyone would want Arteta to be honest, he wasn't a great player for us, wasn't much of a leader, has never managed at any level and isn't really the reason City are successful in reality, that's entirely down to Guardiola and the big budget he's had.

[IBK]

I think there's an element of contradiction in what you are saying. Understanding the pride of the fans kind of does mean chasing top 4 instead of breeding a winner's mentality. That's the root of the problem. For a decade the club and the manager told us top 4 was a trophy and an unhealthy segment of the fanbase agreed with that wholeheartedly. That's where the loser mentality embedded itself and started to rot the entire club. Second best (or 4th best) became acceptable on every level, acceptable not just with the club but also many of the fans. That's what needs to be halted, reversed and eradicated and I see no significant signs of it so far. We still have fans saying if Emery doesn't get top 4 he can go.

None of us have firm information about what's going on inside the club. Have the owners resolved to compete at the top level? For real? Their recent transfer spending, to a degree, hints they might be thinking about it. Then again, their net spend still suggests the sustainability nonsense that simply isn't realistic in the modern game. It just isn't. Even mid table clubs are taking risks on spending. Whatever, we'll need the owners fully committed if we are serious about clawing a route back to the top. (Top means #1, not #4 - we need to get that right at least).

Is the manager here to compete for the top prizes? Or is he protecting his contract by aiming for a pre-determined target, let me guess, top 4 within 2 years? If that's what we have here then we've lost before we start. It's just a continuation of Wenger's reign.

Are the players committed to winning or are they here for the salaries and the shop window? Have the losers been purged and the winners retained? Are our star players now locked in for the future? Will we make the same mistakes again? Doesn't look so good from here.

My point is, you can bring anyone in and maybe they'll even give us a bump in results for a while. But if they aren't coming here to change the whole culture, WITH the support and absolute commitment of the owners, WITH the support and absolute commitment of the staff, WITH the support and and absolute commitment of the players - what difference will a new guy really be able to make? We'll just end up back in the same hole, gloriously failing at the critical moments against more resolute and cohesive opponents. We've seen it all before.

Going back to the fans, I can't say I rate them much given their attitude over the last months. Many of them seem to think it's just a case of lucky dip. Keep hiring players and managers until it magically clicks. Find some guru who can single-handedly turn it all around. How long did it take Jurgen "Flopp" - remember when people were calling him that? How much money? Pep, of course, had a fortune available from the outset. These two, like it or not, represent the pinnacle of the competition right now and they are a thousand miles clear of anyone else. How will we compete with that? Are we even trying to compete at that level?

The fans could do with calming down a bit, stepping back from the building media click frenzy and asking some simple questions, not just of the manager, but the owners, the staff, the players and themselves. Is everyone in this together to win? If the answer isn't yes, across the board, then sure, sack the manager. Gives us something to talk about but that's all really. Seems to me that Emery (a guy I didn't want here tbh) is carrying the whole can for owners who watched the club rot, players that took the piss and fans that boo their own captain off the field. He deserves a fair share of criticism - a fair share. Nobody should still be getting a free ride here though.

I've worked in organisations that were complacent and badly run. It's almost pointless trying to excel in those places. I've also worked in places that buzzed with the energy of everyone hitting goals and targets. Both are infectious. The former is very hard to turn around.

Good points NQ.

Re my apparent contradiction, I would emphasise that I'm not suggesting for a moment we should not have title winning aspirations, and I am as frustrated as anyone that the winners' mentality has been leached out of our DNA over the past decade and a half - albeit that it could be argued there were logical reasons for this (stadium project that in hindsight did not get us where we wanted to be; the oligarchs; the tsunami of TV money).

But I feel strongly that we need to be pragmatic and realistic about how we are going to achieve what we fans crave. And I think that starts with recognising where we are. That is not defeatist. It is common sense. We need to stop the rot immediately in my view. There is no oven ready world beating manager in the market mid season, and as you rightly point out, even a Klopp or a Guardiola would struggle to fight the number of fires that need putting out at our club as things now stand.

I don't think it is far-fetched that a manager with a past connection with the Club, and who has been part of the most successful EPL team of recent times would both restore the connection with the fans that is so badly needed, and bring a winning philosophy to our team. From what I hear, Arteta is a pretty uncompromising character who would take underperforming players in hand. There is nothing to suggest that he would be the coward that we have seen Emery to be.

As I said, the next task for the manager would be to restore some feel good energy to an underperforming team. The fact that this has so palpably disappeared under Emery is in my view down to him, not a club hierarchy who did their bit over the Summer to make some exciting player signings.

Should a manager be appointed with the aim of securing top 4? No. The aim should be to win, of course, and the appointment of a so-called Europa League specialist was in hindsight too low an aspiration. What was not wrong in principle, however, was to aim to build steadily rather than expect instant success - which is, as you have said, something that was beyond even Guardiola and Klopp when they came. Given where we are now there are worse ideas, in my view, in seeing whether we can go the Lampard route rather than appoint a more illustrious manage who is probably not available anyway.

As for the fans. I agree with you. I am not impressed by some of our fans' behaviour, and I would dearly like to see an approach by Gooners that has the best interests of the club at heart rather than knee jerking along with everyone else. What I cannot blame the fans for however is our recognition that the manager's current sitiation is untenable, and that the job is beyond him.

[Globalgunner]

Arteta to my mind would be a terrible choice. No logic in that one at all. His history with us has been rose tinted. What I heard behind the scenes was that he was a sour character that none of his teammates liked. He was imposed by Wenger, because Wenger does what Wenger usually does. Follows his own ego.
If Everton are not considering Arteta why the fk are we?. We made one bad choice following years of Wenger stagnation. This time around we should be even more circumspect. Bring in in a manager who we can all rally around. Not someone who instantly divides an already disgruntled fanbase.

Id like Emery gone immediately. But am prepared to wait till next season to get the right man. Even Emeryshite cannot relegate us (I think). We may finish 15th in the table with the way things are going. Lets take our time and spend the next 6 months searching or waiting for a proven winner. Id like it to be NES, but really there are many achievable candidates superior to Arteta

[IBK]

Arteta to my mind would be a terrible choice. No logic in that one at all. His history with us has been rose tinted. What I heard behind the scenes was that he was a sour character that none of his teammates liked. He was imposed by Wenger, because Wenger does what Wenger usually does. Follows his own ego.
If Everton are not considering Arteta why the fk are we?. We made one bad choice following years of Wenger stagnation. This time around we should be even more circumspect. Bring in in a manager who we can all rally around. Not someone who instantly divides an already disgruntled fanbase.

Id like Emery gone immediately. But am prepared to wait till next season to get the right man. Even Emeryshite cannot relegate us (I think). We may finish 15th in the table with the way things are going. Lets take our time and spend the next 6 months searching or waiting for a proven winner. Id like it to be NES, but really there are many achievable candidates superior to Arteta

I think the consequences of Emery staying would go beyond league position. If he stays to the end of the season we will almost certainly lose our best players, and our up and coming talent might be irretrievably damaged - at least in terms of their Arsenal careers. The disconnect between fans and club (not to mention fans and players) will reach near-irreperable levels and our ability to attract top talent will be damaged not only by the toxic result, but by the fact that we will not even be playing Europa League football.

In other words, I fear that even the 'superior candidates' that you mention will be available in the close season will have very little to work with. Add to the mix that we won't provide Citeh or Manure style backing to a new manager, and I wonder who will be able to be the 'magic bullet' that we think might be out there. Like it or not - Arsenal has reached the stage where a top-billed manager will not be given the time and patience by the fans that may be required to try to sort out the clusterfuck that we may well be by Summer 2020. I get aspirations - I really do - but I am very sceptical that waiting 6 or 7 months for a 'title winning' manager will end up with success. That's why I would be willing to support a different approach.

[Bumble]

Get rid of Emery. Then worry about who will replace him. We aren't going to get relegated. Our strikers will see to that. I think if we miss out on CL football again then I imagine one of Laca or Aubu will go. If it is Laca then hopefully we can do a Liverpool and sell for a ridiculous price that can then be reinvested into the team. We don't have a lot of really sellable players, so sometimes you have take a step back to go 2 steps forward.

Although maybe its Freddies fault, replaces Bould as assistant manager and we are worse.

[Marc Overmars]

There's already talk Auba and Laca will not sign a new deal with Emery around, on top of the various stories we've heard about the squad being disillusioned with his "tactics".

He can't be given the season to turn it around, that would be suicide because the players are not responding to anything he's setting out for them and they haven't done so for a very long time. I think it's reasonably clear we're probably going to finish mid table unless the club act now. So make the call and get rid him, put this sorry chapter behind us and lets start looking forward again.

We have a good squad with some very good players. They just need some direction and most importantly on a human level to feel a connection with whoever is guiding them. Of which Emery provides nothing because he is a charisma vacuum.

[AFC Leveller]