Winter Transfer Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[HCZ_Reborn]

If you genuinely believe that we had the money to sign better, more experienced players but chose not to…I don’t know what to tell you. The fact is you can argue over the self sustaining model and say we should have let Kroenke or Usmanov finance those signings, but that’s a different argument entirely.

Also this debate will not be productive if you keep insisting on telling me what I think and in the process ignoring it when I do tell you what I think. If you want to argue a straw man that’s your choice but you absolutely do not require me for that.

What the betting markets think is of no concern to me, I don’t regard us as favourites a) because we’ve played less than half the games and b) we haven’t yet played Man City.

Now if within a month or so we have played City and still maintain a sizeable lead over them, I’ll be singing a completely different tune…but I think it’s premature.

Nothing in your argument has convinced me that there are players out there in all three positions we require that would be available to us and wouldn’t end up in a ridiculous situation on them being on eight year contracts and on twice the amount of money the rest of the squad is on.

If that situation existed and even if it cost us 200 or even 300 million plus and might impact our finances for next year or two, I’d absolutely say go for it. But that situation doesn’t exist, and I expect you know it doesn’t exist.

[HCZ_Reborn]

But I tell you what, I’ll take your claim at face value

You’ve said to me having cover for Partey is the main issue for you.

Well if we identify a decent player that could be both a stand in for him and someone who could be a long term replacement too (you have to factor that in as a consideration because otherwise you’ll bring in a player expecting to play and getting fucked off when he doesn’t) then I absolutely will be up for us signing that player

If into the bargain we identify a winger as well and sign both, I consider that an absolute bonus.

Because I do want us to do everything we can to win the title. I’m just not convinced that signing any old person just to give on edge fans a bit of relief is not necessarily the way to do it

[IBK]

I just think it’s too much of a gamble to bring in players that we have no use for long term in the hope that they can win us this current title, when nothing will guarantee that…we aren’t favourites…Manchester City are and we are 18 games in not 25…we aren’t in the mid way point yet to put our current league position down to anything other than an anomaly caused by other teams showing indifferent form.

As it is we haven’t secured 4th yet. But neither should we be panic buying to get that over the line

Agree with this. We need to be so careful not to upset the squad togetherness that we have built and paying over the odds in transfers/wages has huge knock on effects. I'm torn though, because I am starting to think that we could be in with a shot at the title. But on balance if we sign someone it has to be a player who fits into our long term plans.

I disagree with you that our current position is an anomaly however. The stats don't lie. This is our best league start (half) ever. To say that we are here only because everyone else has been indifferent is a bit nuts. As far as title hopes are concerned you are basically suggesting that everyone else is going to have a massive upswing in the second half of the season. Why would that be?

[IBK]

But I tell you what, I’ll take your claim at face value

You’ve said to me having cover for Partey is the main issue for you.

Well if we identify a decent player that could be both a stand in for him and someone who could be a long term replacement too (you have to factor that in as a consideration because otherwise you’ll bring in a player expecting to play and getting fucked off when he doesn’t) then I absolutely will be up for us signing that player

If into the bargain we identify a winger as well and sign both, I consider that an absolute bonus.

Because I do want us to do everything we can to win the title. I’m just not convinced that signing any old person just to give on edge fans a bit of relief is not necessarily the way to do it

Here's the thing with Partey. I can't think of a replacement that can do what he can do - ie the jobs of 2 players in one. Seems to me that Arteta thinks that Declan Rice might be capable of being trained up to do this - and this is the long term plan. But anyone who thinks that a true replacement is just lying around for us to pick up this January is delusional.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Here's the thing with Partey. I can't think of a replacement that can do what he can do - ie the jobs of 2 players in one. Seems to me that Arteta thinks that Declan Rice might be capable of being trained up to do this - and this is the long term plan. But anyone who thinks that a true replacement is just lying around for us to pick up this January is delusional.

Oh I agree with that, but in some ways much of that doing two jobs largely comes down to the positional ill discipline of Granit Xhaka…and it’s as much that he has to do that as well as can do it.

Arguably you could sign a player a bit more in the Xhaka mould who also is more inclined to track back (and I’m not saying that Xhaka never does this, it’s just he goes through long spells where he doesn’t) and then leave a player like Elneny to do the more gritty protecting the back four tasks.

I’m not a big fan of Rice myself, he can be excellent both for West Ham and for England, but if he’s underperforming for the latter we know about it.

I think we should at the very least just keep Partey out of Europe entirely, if we are genuinely going for the title…the Europa league and really the FA cup become an encumbrance. I honestly felt there was no need to play Saka and Martinelli against Oxford for example.

[IBK]

Oh I agree with that, but in some ways much of that doing two jobs largely comes down to the positional ill discipline of Granit Xhaka…and it’s as much that he has to do that as well as can do it.

Arguably you could sign a player a bit more in the Xhaka mould who also is more inclined to track back (and I’m not saying that Xhaka never does this, it’s just he goes through long spells where he doesn’t) and then leave a player like Elneny to do the more gritty protecting the back four tasks.

I’m not a big fan of Rice myself, he can be excellent both for West Ham and for England, but if he’s underperforming for the latter we know about it.

I think we should at the very least just keep Partey out of Europe entirely, if we are genuinely going for the title…the Europa league and really the FA cup become an encumbrance. I honestly felt there was no need to play Saka and Martinelli against Oxford for example.

I don't think Partey does 2 jobs because of Xhaka. I think Arteta has been able to get the best out of Xhaka (one of our stand out players this season - but I know you don't agree with me) because Partey can do 2 jobs - which IMHO is very rare to find at the level Partey plays.

I kind of agree with you re keeping him out of Europe, but by the same token I can see where Arteta is coming from that if you want to breed winners you need to go out and try to win. I'd be perfectly happy to see us go out of the FA Cup...provided we beat Manure next weekend and can see an exit to Citeh as a bit 'meh'.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Agree with this. We need to be so careful not to upset the squad togetherness that we have built and paying over the odds in transfers/wages has huge knock on effects. I'm torn though, because I am starting to think that we could be in with a shot at the title. But on balance if we sign someone it has to be a player who fits into our long term plans.

I disagree with you that our current position is an anomaly however. The stats don't lie. This is our best league start (half) ever. To say that we are here only because everyone else has been indifferent is a bit nuts. As far as title hopes are concerned you are basically suggesting that everyone else is going to have a massive upswing in the second half of the season. Why would that be?

It is by its very definition an anomaly because it deviates from what normally has been produced by Arsenal in recent years, and my point is that it’s simply too soon to categorise it definitively as being anything more.

If you’re asking have we been the best team in the league so far this season, the objective answer going by the league table as well as from deriving an opinion from watching us play is yes.

The Germans refer to the team that is top of the table at the half way point as the Autumnmeister, in the last ten years I think Dortmund have been Autumnmeister on more than one occasion but have ended up falling considerably short of Bayern in the end of season table.

We have to go to Liverpool, we have to go to Newcastle, we have to play City twice. All games we could comfortably lose and then our eight point advantage is potentially a four point deficit. And with Newcastle and United closer to City than they are to us, it wouldn’t take an epic disaster to see us tumble out of the top four.

And will City pick up points on a continual basis from January to May?, I don’t know…but historical precedence shows they are more than capable of it, as are Liverpool, as are Spurs…the only teams untested in that regard is Newcastle and Man United under Ten Haag.

We’ve enjoyed a good start to the season, but yes it’s not a reflection on us that we are where we are because a lot of teams have suffered indifferent form (Chelsea nowhere, Liverpool inconsistent, Spurs in a funk and City by their ridiculously high standards and a freak of nature goalscorer have been below par)

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think Partey does 2 jobs because of Xhaka. I think Arteta has been able to get the best out of Xhaka (one of our stand out players this season - but I know you don't agree with me) because Partey can do 2 jobs - which IMHO is very rare to find at the level Partey plays.

I kind of agree with you re keeping him out of Europe, but by the same token I can see where Arteta is coming from that if you want to breed winners you need to go out and try to win. I'd be perfectly happy to see us go out of the FA Cup...provided we beat Manure next weekend and can see an exit to Citeh as a bit 'meh'.

Xhaka has had a good season because he is being played in a more advanced role than previous years and is being Shawn of the same defensive responsibilities he might have had in the past, this is why Arteta has been so keen on bringing in Zinchenko a player that can cut inside and roll up his sleeves in midfield.

The premier league does not usually allow for a player that is at best indifferent to the defensive side of the game in central midfield. And as much as Partey is capable of doing both jobs, from a defensive standpoint we’d be screwed if we weren’t

Our only league defeat this season, was a result of defensive lack of control as a result of Partey’s absence. Xhaka fulfilled his new role vacating central midfield to Eriksen, Lokonga simply didn’t have it within him to impose himself on the game and when Zinchenko came in to help out in central midfield it left a giant load of space for them to exploit in the fullback area

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Because I do want us to do everything we can to win the title.

Finally, we got there

I’m just not convinced that signing any old person just to give on edge fans a bit of relief is not necessarily the way to do it

The funny thing, besides Mudryk, which we royally bungled, I have not insisted we sign anyone.

I have been consistent about my assessment of the team, our weakness is in the centre, we get someone of quality there then I am more than happy. But if we bungle the title because our weakness comes back to haunt us (and more importantly we did nothing about addressing it) I will hold the club responsible. Simple.

Every single post I have put out is saying the club should IMO be trying their best off the pitch (go the extra mile) because I am not seeing any evidence that suggests they are.

BTW I doubt anyone can accuse me of panicking or being on the edge, surely that label is better suited to those who refuse to accept the obvious i.e. we are favourites and will clinch a CL place.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Finally, we got there



The funny thing, besides Mudryk, which we royally bungled, I have not insisted we sign anyone.

I have been consistent about my assessment of the team, our weakness is in the centre, we get someone of quality there then I am more than happy. But if we bungle the title because our weakness comes back to haunt us (and more importantly we did nothing about addressing it) I will hold the club responsible. Simple.

Every single post I have put out is saying the club should IMO be trying their best off the pitch (go the extra mile) because I am not seeing any evidence that suggests they are.

BTW I doubt anyone can accuse me of panicking or being on the edge, surely that label is better suited to those who refuse to accept the obvious i.e. we are favourites and will clinch a CL place.

Just my opinion of course but I think many people can credibly accuse you of panicking, I’d go as far as to say that since Saturday you’ve been figuratively spraying molten effluence in all directions.

Your reaction to the Mudryk going to Chelsea was incredibly histrionic, if you were a woman I’d accuse you of being on the blob (the only reason I know you’re not is because this place is generally as appealing to women as the Carlton Club)

Do we need squad strengthening? Yes

Is January ever a good time to do it? No, January is for sticking plasters. So for me it’s far more logical to be annoyed with what the club didn’t do in the Summer. I’m not even convinced the January transfer window should exist aside from emergency loans or free transfers…it seems completely for the benefit of keeping Jim White in work.

Is losing out on Mudryk to Chelsea disappointing? Yes


Is signing someone like Raphinia or Trossard…the equivalent of banging the ugly girl next door because the one you were really after ended up shagging your nemesis ? Also yes. Might feel good at the time, but has no real benefit and if she ends up pregnant you’re completely fucked.

4th is not done till it’s done. We lost seven games in the period between January and May last year if you don’t think that many defeats would a) not happen b) not seriously imperil us getting in the top 4…I don’t know what to tell you. That’s not panic, you may think it negative I see it as cold hearted pragmatism to explore the worst case scenario.