Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit.

[GP]

Oh, and no.
After this year's 'disastrous' start we were 4th after 10 games.
EDIT: Our lowest position all season was 8th.

Dortmund were rock bottom for a while. We've never had a season like that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Here's an interesting poser, assume for a second it's April 2014 and Arsenal have put themselves in the same exalted position as Liverpool had done, with three games left only seven points is needed to secure the title with fixtures against Chelsea at home (still in the champions league and realistically very little hope of winning the title), Crystal Palace away (already safe) and Newcastle at home.

Yes or no?...Would he have got us over the line?.

[GP]

Here's an interesting poser, assume for a second it's April 2014 and Arsenal have put themselves in the same exalted position as Liverpool had done, with three games left only seven points is needed to secure the title with fixtures against Chelsea at home (still in the champions league and realistically very little hope of winning the title), Crystal Palace away (already safe) and Newcastle at home.

Yes or no?...Would he have got us over the line?.

Wenger?

Yes.

[Globalgunner]

There aren't any 'comparable benchmarks'. You can't quantify how 'good' a manager is in any sensible way, especially when you're talking about two people working in different leagues in difference circumstances.


Not under Wenger...

If there is no basis for comparison. Then what is your basis for dismissing him out of hand as a replacement for Wenger? ? 1 bad season does not define a manager who has won 2 league titles back to back, which Wenger has never done. The 2 times we were in the same CL group with Dortmund, they were above us after 6 games. The season Aston Villa gave us a bumpy start, we were in the bottom half a fair bit before rallying as we usually do. It's not to say we've never been lower than 8th. Not true.

[Letters]

If there is no basis for comparison. Then what is your basis for dismissing him out of hand as a replacement for Wenger?

I wouldn't say I'm dismissing him out of hand, and I don't think one bad season makes him a bad manager. And I didn't say there was no basis for comparison, you said 'Klopp is a better manager than Wenger on any comparable benchmark'. It was that I was disputing, what comparable benchmarks do you mean? And how do they show Klopp is better?

What I don't understand is the fawning over Klopp and the dismissal of Wenger as a bumbling buffoon. Wenger has never had a season anywhere near as poor as Klopp is having this year. We're in the Cup Final and looking good to finish 2nd, we got off to a shaky start but if we finish strongly it will have been a good season. While Wenger hasn't won back to back titles he has won a whole lot more than Klopp has. Over a longer period, admittedly, but he's been very consistent as Arsenal manager. Top 4 isn't the be all and end all but it is important in terms of revenue and status, to keep us up there over such a long period in the era of billionaire cheats and the stadium move should not be dismissed. His failure to win trophies for so long shouldn't be ignored either of course but we started to put that right last season and we're back in the final this year. We finally have a squad I believe can challenge seriously for the title. Wenger gets no credit for any of that.

I'm not convinced a CL group, effectively a mini-league of 6 games, is a sensible basis for comparison. The season Villa gave us a bumpy start was last year, we won 8 of our next 9 games and were top for much of the season. A few years ago, 2011/12, we did have a much bumpier start, we lost 3 of our first 7. We were 15th after that but we won our next two after which we were in 7th and we never fell below that. Even in the lasagnagate season when we just snuck above Spurs on the last day we never fell below 8th all season (well, 9th after 2 games, but be fair...)

It's not to say we've never been lower than 8th. Not true.

No, it's not. But it is true to say we've never had a season anywhere near as bad as Klopp has. We've not been below 8th all season this year and there were banners at the ground. Dortmund were bottom after 19 games before rallying. And yet Klopp is clearly the better manager, apparently.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I wholly agree with Letters about Klopp. Bear in mind Germany is a less competitive league than the PL and with less "big teams" than there are here which puts Wenger's record in perspective. It's been an absolutely god awful for Klopp this year and he should shoulder most of the blame for it. Even if he scrapes into Europa, that'd probably be equivalent to finishing about tenth here I reckon. Even in our god awful years we've always managed to at least get CL football.

I still think ultimately Klopp is the best man to succeed Wenger but he's going to be a risk, make no doubt about it. There are a few things he may be better than Wenger in but there are a lot of things he's probably a lot worse in and will need to improve.

The German international suffers from spondylolisthesis, a deformity in his lower back that can lead to hamstring injuries, and he was sidelined for over a year.

get him asap.

Don't forget, he plays in CM ..... a position we're obviously really short in at the moment.



Sigh, with Wenger's love for them, I guess I'll start ordering the shirt right now then.

[Marc Overmars]

I think Klopp is a better manager than this season suggests, one bad season doesn't erase his past success. It's very difficult to achieve anything in Germany right now with Satan's other team Bayern calling the shots, think what Chelsea are here and multiply that by 10.

Wenger has his flaws and I believe it's time to move on, I don't think he's capable of conveying the same mentality to his team as someone like Mourinho does to his, as much as it pains me to say it. However he's consistent and that's not something that should be taken for granted, the safest pair of hands in the business for my money. So by definition it's going to be a gamble whoever his replacement is regardless of what they've achieved.

[selassie]

I think Klopp is a better manager than this season suggests, one bad season doesn't erase his past success. It's very difficult to achieve anything in Germany right now with Satan's other team Bayern calling the shots, think what Chelsea are here and multiply that by 10.

Wenger has his flaws and I believe it's time to move on, I don't think he's capable of conveying the same mentality to his team as someone like Mourinho does to his, as much as it pains me to say it. However he's consistent and that's not something that should be taken for granted, the safest pair of hands in the business for my money. So by definition it's going to be a gamble whoever his replacement is regardless of what they've achieved.

Yeah I agree with this.

Klopp took over at Dortmund when they were a bit of a sleeping giant, at the time they were languishing mid table amounting to nothing.

He built them up pretty much from scratch and on a shoestring budget, a lot of the stars at Dortmund were either youth players on the scrapheap at other clubs, players he developed through their youth system or unfancied players from smaller clubs both in Germany and abroad.

The facts are that Klopp built Dortmund into the best side in German and one of the best in Europe, all this built on an efficient system of attractive football. You could argue at one point they were the best team in Europe, they were certainly better than Bayern for a few seasons even when Bayern were throwing money around like it was going out of fashion. Bayern Munich soon put paid to Dortmund's mini dominance by raiding them, Gotze first, then Lewandowski followed.

Klopp is about as good as we could possible expect post Wenger, he's a top class manager and one very poor season doesn't change that.

He can still salvage the little credit they deserve from this season by winning the German Cup though I am not so sure they will beat Wolfsburg.

[AFC Leveller]

I think Klopp is a better manager than this season suggests, one bad season doesn't erase his past success. It's very difficult to achieve anything in Germany right now with Satan's other team Bayern calling the shots, think what Chelsea are here and multiply that by 10.

Wenger has his flaws and I believe it's time to move on, I don't think he's capable of conveying the same mentality to his team as someone like Mourinho does to his, as much as it pains me to say it. However he's consistent and that's not something that should be taken for granted, the safest pair of hands in the business for my money. So by definition it's going to be a gamble whoever his replacement is regardless of what they've achieved.

I agree. In terms of safe choices and consistancy, AW is one of the best around. He wont win us the league title even though we have the players to do it but he also wont drop out of the top 4.

Klopp would be a great choise though and i think he'd fancy managing us because we have eveyrthing in place and would offer him stability and the right resources to succeed.

[AFC Leveller]

Yeah I agree with this.

Klopp took over at Dortmund when they were a bit of a sleeping giant, at the time they were languishing mid table amounting to nothing.

He built them up pretty much from scratch and on a shoestring budget, a lot of the stars at Dortmund were either youth players on the scrapheap at other clubs, players he developed through their youth system or unfancied players from smaller clubs both in Germany and abroad.

The facts are that Klopp built Dortmund into the best side in German and one of the best in Europe, all this built on an efficient system of attractive football. You could argue at one point they were the best team in Europe, they were certainly better than Bayern for a few seasons even when Bayern were throwing money around like it was going out of fashion. Bayern Munich soon put paid to Dortmund's mini dominance by raiding them, Gotze first, then Lewandowski followed.

Klopp is about as good as we could possible expect post Wenger, he's a top class manager and one very poor season doesn't change that.

He can still salvage the little credit they deserve from this season by winning the German Cup though I am not so sure they will beat Wolfsburg.

If reports are to be believed, City and Real both want him next season and are just waiting for their respective managers to end the season before approaching him.

He'd be a great choise for us though.