Arsenal v Man City. 15th Feb. 19:30

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Average compared to what, out of interest? I mean, we've been top of the league for most of the season. It would have to be a really spectacular collapse for us to finish outside the top 4.
So even in the context of the PL I don't think you could say our players are average.

Their ability and ceiling Letters, and I mean "average" in the best possible way BTW.

I am not denigrating their effort, I mean its a miracle these limited bunch of players have achieved what they have achieved so far....it just like what Leicester did the year they won, difference being they had a determined bunch and a pretty seasoned manager who could keep them grounded and ride the inevitable waves that came along.

The thing is we are not a Leicester and our history demands that we do more and have one of the best set of players in the League who can consistently compete,we don't IMO.

This is targeted at those who believe a few tweaks will be enough to get this squad competitive for years to come.
As far as I am concerned, we still have whole lot of rebuilding to do.

[Marc Overmars]

I’ve seen enough that suggests we’re capable of taking this to the wire but can we deal with adversity? I’m not convinced. There’s a lot of football to be played and if, and that’s a big if currently, we rediscover some form then the title is still a possibility. End of the day we’re only behind on a goal difference with a game in hand. It’s all to play for but the problem is this vulnerability that’s crept in over the last few games.

Last night I saw a team that wilted once it became apparent what they were up against. It was like the big games during Wenger’s latter years. Mistakes galore, lack of concentration and just a real lack of belief that we could even lay a glove on them.

Liverpool were never phased like that when they faced City during their title challenges. That’s the difference.

[selassie]

Their ability and ceiling Letters, and I mean "average" in the best possible way BTW.

I am not denigrating their effort, I mean its a miracle these limited bunch of players have achieved what they have achieved so far....it just like what Leicester did the year they won, difference being they had a determined bunch and a pretty seasoned manager who could keep them grounded and ride the inevitable waves that came along.

The thing is we are not a Leicester and our history demands that we do more and have one of the best set of players in the League who can consistently compete,we don't IMO.

This is targeted at those who believe a few tweaks will be enough to get this squad competitive for years to come.
As far as I am concerned, we still have whole lot of rebuilding to do.

It is nothing like Leicester! The team before this season was a top 4 contender, we should have finished top 4 last season but collapsed, maybe it was a mentality issue, but injuries played a big part. In the summer we secured Jesus and Zinchenko as starters and they most certainly added a lot of quality to an already half decent side.

Don't get me wrong they have surprised me this season and I never expected us to be in this position, but it has not come as a complete "Leicester" style shock if you look at the progress made over the past few seasons and our recruitment and general improvement of the players already within the squad.

We are going to toe to toe with a Serial Title Winner, Leicester won it in an era where there wasn't even a dominant team in PL at the time, very very different to now.

Besides the season is not yet over, like Letters said, I started to believe after the Spurs and Man United victories but I have always sat on the fence and maintained that we would need a near perfect season to win the Title, we would need all of our best players available throughout the entire season because we simply lack quality depth options or at least seamless ones that are like for like replacements quality wise.

[selassie]

I’ve seen enough that suggests we’re capable of taking this to the wire but can we deal with adversity? I’m not convinced. There’s a lot of football to be played and if, and that’s a big if currently, we rediscover some form then the title is still a possibility. End of the day we’re only behind on a goal difference with a game in hand. It’s all to play for but the problem is this vulnerability that’s crept in over the last few games.

Last night I saw a team that wilted once it became apparent what they were up against. It was like the big games during Wenger’s latter years. Mistakes galore, lack of concentration and just a real lack of belief that we could even lay a glove on them.

Liverpool were never phased like that when they faced City during their title challenges. That’s the difference.

Yeah I totally agree with this. Especially the part in bold.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I get your point, but take issue with the fact you think we have a bunch of average players. I don't necessarily agree with this, I personally think our true level is somewhere between where we are now and where we were last season which in theory makes us a certified top 3 side, but not necessarily a certified title contender. Despite that we are still knee deep in a title race if we start picking up results as of Saturday.

I personally think the likes of Saliba, Partey, Odegaard, Saka and Jesus would get in most PL sides as starters, the spine of our team is very good IMO.

I definitely agree that we need to improve the team / squad for quality depth, I have been banging on about that for a while and was disappointed with us not securing our primary targets in the January window. I think Jorginho who played well last night isn't a bad pickup, but I would have preferred Caicedo for numerous reasons.

The squad is still a work in progress, we are still a long way behind City in terms of the make up our squad and the lack of quality we have in certain positions depth wise. That's why I'm not really panicking or throwing my hands up in the air because we are only as good as the make up of the squad which is pretty much what you are saying anyway, we are just disagreeing on the choice of words average v very good etc!

So our disagreement is on our true level or our ability

I believe this team has overachieved when you look at the parts of the team individually. I firmly believe that the parts that make up City, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man U (in that order) are clearly better than us.

Our level if I look at the parts of the team is Newcastlish.....7-11ish in the League, average.

However, Arteta's system initially got the best out of these average players and thus our Team as a unit with our style of play is where they are as this has always been a team sport- would we be further with players of the ability of Spurs and Chelsea, in my opinion we would be out of sight this season if all things were held constant.

Again my belief is that we can and should do better in personnel which is practically most of the positions in this team.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah I totally agree with this. Especially the part in bold.

It’s an inferiority complex. I don’t believe there was a single player on that pitch in red who felt we could win that game.

[selassie]

So our disagreement is on our true level or our ability

I believe this team has overachieved when you look at the parts of the team individually. I firmly believe that the parts that make up City, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man U (in that order) are clearly better than us.

Our level if I look at the parts of the team is Newcastlish.....7-11ish in the League, average.

However, Arteta's system initially got the best out of these average players and thus our Team as a unit with our style of play is where they are as this has always been a team sport- would we be further with players of the ability of Spurs and Chelsea, in my opinion we would be out of sight this season if all things were held constant.

Again my belief is that we can and should do better in personnel which is practically most of the positions in this team.

City are definitely better team than us, Spurs? Come on Man! Kane and Son are the only two from that side who get into our current First XI if you include Jesus and Partey. We are more organised than them and have better players than them IMO.

Chelsea is a question mark, the potential they have in their team / squad is up there with City so I think as of next season they may well be a better team than us but right now we are better than them. Liverpool depends on their recruitment this summer, right now we are definitely better than them. Man Utd I think are a top striker and top midfielder away from being a better team than us but right now I'd say we are marginally better than them, or level pegging if I take off my bias hat!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

City are definitely better team than us, Spurs? Come on Man! Kane and Son are the only two from that side who get into our current First XI if you include Jesus and Partey. We are more organised than them and have better players than them IMO.

Chelsea is a question mark, the potential they have in their team / squad is up there with City so I think as of next season they may well be a better team than us but right now we are better than them. Liverpool depends on their recruitment this summer, right now we are definitely better than them. Man Utd I think are a top striker and top midfielder away from being a better team than us but right now I'd say we are marginally better than them, or level pegging if I take off my bias hat!

I don't agree, there is a difference between performances and ability, and Spurs and the other teams I mentioned have players with ability whose ceiling is far above our tin men like Odegaard, Xhaka and co.

Again we are where we are because most of the team is playing beyond its ability and giving laudable performances, the same way every unbiased pundit have kept insisting the others are playing below their ability which is why they have faltered....anyway our situation is not sustainable in such a demanding league and can only get us so far.

To think we're currently proving idiots like Neville and Keane right :smh:

[selassie]

I don't agree, there is a difference between performances and ability, and Spurs and the other teams I mentioned have players with ability whose ceiling is far above our tin men like Odegaard, Xhaka and co.

Again we are where we are because most of the team is playing beyond its ability and giving laudable performances, the same way every unbiased pundit have kept insisting the others are playing below their ability which is why they have faltered....anyway our situation is not sustainable in such a demanding league and can only get us so far.

To think we're currently proving idiots like Neville and Keane right :smh:

Odegaard and Xhaka both walk into Spurs first XI IMO. Spurs midfield consists of the likes of Bentancur (good player) Pepe Sarr (average), Hojberg (average), Bissouma (average) and Oliver Skipp (clogger). They don't even play with an attacking midfielder / creative midfielder, their Midfield is a complete mess.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah don’t agree with that re: Spurs

Our goalkeeper is better than Lloris, our defence is better than theirs, our central midfield is poor (Partey aside) but so is theirs, I think Saka is better than Kulusevski, Martinelli better than Richarlison. Son and Kane are the only two players that make them on a similar level to us…clearly both better than what we have up front.