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Thread: Summer Transfer Shit and Everything Else

  1. #71
    Member WMUG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn View Post

    Smith Rowe? I don’t want to be racist but why do so many young white men speak a kind of hybrid patois if they are from london or the south east these days….utterly baffles me
    Ooh! I get to geek out about my degree subject!

    What you're talking about is a sociolect that linguists call Multicultural London English.

    A sociolect is a dialect spoken by people of a particular social class. It's useful to distinguish that from your typical dialects because whether or not you speak that way is determined less by geography and more by social class. For example, a kid with middle class parents might speak very differently to a kid with working class parents, despite growing up in the same area.

    The influences that cause somebody to speak with one accent versus another in this case are varied, but examples include what makes an individual fit in with their peers, how they've been taught to speak by authority figures and unconscious influence from speakers in their community.

    A good example of a sociolect in early 20th century London would be Cockney. To massively oversimplify, people from more working class backgrounds would speak more like Ronnie Cray, and people from more middle and upper class backgrounds would speak more like the Queen. That sort of dynamic had been going on since at least the Norman conquest, and probably much longer.

    What happened in the late 20th Century is that people started immigrating to the UK, especially London, from the Caribbean and bringing their dialects with them. Because these people tended to be less well off, they would mostly be sharing spaces with more working class people (again, to massively oversimplify).

    These dialects therefore started to both influence and be influenced by the local working class dialects more so than the more middle and upper class ones. The result of this is that working class white kids who'd never been to the Caribbean in their lives nonetheless grew up alongside kids whose parents were from there, and so were naturally using elements speech from dialects from that region.

    How many of those elements they incorporated into their own speech would be down to the individual, but enough elements transferred across that the default working class sociolect in certain areas of London became noticeably different enough to previous generations that it's now been given its own name and wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multic...London_English

    I love this stuff, me.

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  2. #72
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    ,,,and ultimately there's no problem with it, except that it seems to cause discomfort amongst the Alf Garnetts of this world

    For this reason alone, I'm beginning to change my mind about ESR and think we should keep him

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac76 View Post
    ,,,and ultimately there's no problem with it, except that it seems to cause discomfort amongst the Alf Garnetts of this world

    For this reason alone, I'm beginning to change my mind about ESR and think we should keep him
    As a true Cockney from Shoreditch in 1973 (before it came gentrified). I think it is fucking embarrassing. You are obviously a younger person that thinks anyone with the balls to question it is related to Alf Garnett.

  4. #74
    MOe Marc Overmars's Avatar
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    Mac Allister on his way to Liverpool. Buyout clause of around 50m apparently.

    Decent business there.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippy View Post
    As a true Cockney from Shoreditch in 1973 (before it came gentrified). I think it is fucking embarrassing. You are obviously a younger person that thinks anyone with the balls to question it is related to Alf Garnett.
    No, hang on. I think the young get shat upon quite enough. I think holding them responsible for this pearl clutching and righteousness is a tad too simplistic. Actually it’s Gen Z that have had this nonsense foist upon them, if you speak to anyone under the age of thirty they think it’s nonsense as well.

    And I also say balls to this class distinction, it’s cultural…you’ll get a middle class white lad just as likely to talk like a Yardie just as much as a poor kid from Bermondsey.

    It’s about the music and other influences, and the fact that parents are not allowed to hit their kids anymore.

    Frankly if I was a West Indian father and my boy spoke like that I’d be inclined to take a belt to him.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Overmars View Post
    Mac Allister on his way to Liverpool. Buyout clause of around 50m apparently.

    Decent business there.
    Mac Allister is an Argentine Aaron Ramsey. Only because of the sheer absurdity of transfer fees this day does 50 million sound anywhere near a good deal

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac76 View Post
    ,,,and ultimately there's no problem with it, except that it seems to cause discomfort amongst the Alf Garnetts of this world

    For this reason alone, I'm beginning to change my mind about ESR and think we should keep him

    You want to keep him based on the fact that he took lessons in diction from Dizzee Rascal?

    For me, black, white or Asian or whatever part of the country, kids should be forced to speak in RP

    I make fun of my nephew for his scouse accent

  8. #78
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    I think the development of the English language was a mistake, honestly. We should all be speaking Proto-Germanic as the Flying Spaghetti Monster (PBUHNA) intended.
    You used to be everything to me
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  9. #79
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn View Post

    I make fun of my nephew for his scouse accent
    Well I'm with you on that at least

  10. #80
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMUG View Post
    I think the development of the English language was a mistake, honestly. We should all be speaking Proto-Germanic as the Flying Spaghetti Monster (PBUHNA) intended.
    While you're being boring, what do you make of people (I'm looking at you Nigel Kennedy) who shifted accent from quite posh to mockney?
    (I have an idiot uncle who went the other way, our family accent is fairly neutral, his is plummy in a way which doesn't come from him upbringing).

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