Women's World Cup

[The Wengerbabies]

It's hardly moderate for the entire Spanish women's football team (including Hermoso) to refuse to play again while he is in post - which they announced not long after the incident.

They should have called their bluff. Win-win they'd no longer have to waste money subsidising this nonsense.

well it is naive to think an old fart like Rubiales wouldn't simply be grabbing the opportunity to snog a young women in the knowledge (or so he thought) that he could get away with it.

"

Young woman
33

Pick one

She's a good 10 years past her sell by date tbh

Besides it wasn't a snog it was a peck.

[WMUG]

Yes, that's right

[IBK]

How many people do you think were watching that match and the after award globally? The suggestion that it could have been premeditated makes absolutely no sense unless Rubiales has some kind of personality disorder that overrides any sense of good judgement. The whole point of unwanted sexual behaviour is that it tends to be surreptitious.


I’m going to call bollocks on that last statement, the amount of pressure from a media with the bit between its teeth meant that even if she had made a statement like that it would have made no difference. The baying mob wanted his head.

I tend to agree with your view that this whole thing was the result of public pressure. Like we have both said, it was Rubiales conduct afterwards that was the greater stupidity.

Not saying that Rubiales behaviour was warranted - just that the whole reaction that this was sexual assault seems a bit overblown. The overhype is demonstrated by the subsequent lynch mob that took Vilda's job...for the apparent offence of applauding the Rubiales, during a speech in which he refused to resign - ignoring the fact that Vilda's applause undoutedly had more to do with Rubiales' public support for him (he offered the under fire coach a pay rise). IMO this was simply a pretext for gettign rid of an unpopular manager.

I can actually imagine a scenario in which an overexcited individual kissed a male player - in which case I don't think there would have been any reaction at all...

IMHO this kind of over reaction does very little to assist the supposed cause - in this case mysogyny.

[Mac76]

I tend to agree with your view that this whole thing was the result of public pressure. Like we have both said, it was Rubiales conduct afterwards that was the greater stupidity.

Not saying that Rubiales behaviour was warranted - just that the whole reaction that this was sexual assault seems a bit overblown. The overhype is demonstrated by the subsequent lynch mob that took Vilda's job...for the apparent offence of applauding the Rubiales, during a speech in which he refused to resign - ignoring the fact that Vilda's applause undoutedly had more to do with Rubiales' public support for him (he offered the under fire coach a pay rise). IMO this was simply a pretext for gettign rid of an unpopular manager.

I can actually imagine a scenario in which an overexcited individual kissed a male player - in which case I don't think there would have been any reaction at all...

IMHO this kind of over reaction does very little to assist the supposed cause - in this case mysogyny.

I don't agree and tbh this is another example of people just not understanding the significance

anyway what's wrong with 'public pressure' forcing him to go? the pressure is justified IMO

Rubiales left everyone with two choices - leave him in place with a slap on the wrist and therefore green-light every guy who wants to force themselves on a girl in the name of 'being caught up in the moment' - or come down hard on it to show women are properly respected

The right choice has been made

[Letters]

You really need to stop using language like "force themselves on a girl".

[Mac76]

You really need to stop using language like "force themselves on a girl".

Do I? it's a commonly-used phrase to describe that kind of behaviour and that's what he did - he forced himself onto her for the kiss

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't agree and tbh this is another example of people just not understanding the significance

anyway what's wrong with 'public pressure' forcing him to go? the pressure is justified IMO

Rubiales left everyone with two choices - leave him in place with a slap on the wrist and therefore green-light every guy who wants to force themselves on a girl in the name of 'being caught up in the moment' - or come down hard on it to show women are properly respected

The right choice has been made

I’m genuinely interested how far you would apply this belief, so if we assume your belief that Rubiales was motivated by sexual desire rather than overexuberance. If two people go on a date, and they hug goodnight at the end of the date and the guy kisses the woman who isn’t in to him at all and pulls away and says “don’t do that” and the guy immediately apologises and said he misread the signs…do you think he’s committed sexual assault. Does even going into to kiss someone now require explicit consent?

Because if it does you’ve essentially destroyed any sense of spontaneity in human romantic encounters. This is a completely different context of course because I don’t believe Rubiales had any sexual/romantic intent.

[Marc Overmars]

You really need to stop using language like "force themselves on a girl".

Playing devils advocate here but if someone held your wife and planted a kiss on her lips, what else would you call it if it’s not forced?

I’m in full agreement that the reaction has been a little bit disproportionate but I also feel like what he did was totally inappropriate and although it’s obviously at the lower end of the “abuse” scale, I guess it would still have to be considered abuse given the lack of consent.

Where he fucked up most was not immediately showing contrition, accepting he made a mistake and acknowledging why women were outraged.

[Mac76]

I’m genuinely interested how far you would apply this belief, so if we assume your belief that Rubiales was motivated by sexual desire rather than overexuberance. If two people go on a date, and they hug goodnight at the end of the date and the guy kisses the woman who isn’t in to him at all and pulls away and says “don’t do that” and the guy immediately apologises and said he misread the signs…do you think he’s committed sexual assault. Does even going into to kiss someone now require explicit consent?

Because if it does you’ve essentially destroyed any sense of spontaneity in human romantic encounters. This is a completely different context of course because I don’t believe Rubiales had any sexual/romantic intent.

Well that context is entirely different - that's two people in their own personal time who have been on a date so when they go on that date they both know there is a possibility of a physical encounter, but if as you say the guy pulls away immediately then that is fine

we are talking about a man working in his professional capacity, representing the whole of Spanish football on a world stage, taking the opportunity to kiss a young woman while guessing, correctly, she wouldn't pull away and make a scene

I don't buy the exuberance argument at all, he's too old and too experienced and in too senior a professional job to let his guard off like that, IMO it was someone trying to take advantage, we will have to disagree on that because neither of us can prove we're right

Ultimately he let himself down either way and the signal it sends is too great to be ignored

You keep ignoring my point about letting him off being a green-light for any guy who fancies a quick snog in any context when people are celebrating, as they could say "it was just like Rubiales, I just got carried away" and also the woman thinking she has to accept it because Rubiales got away with it

If, in order to prevent many such scenarios, it means having to come down hard on Rubiales then so be it

[The Wengerbabies]

Well that context is entirely different - that's two people in their own personal time who have been on a date so when they go on that date they both know there is a possibility of a physical encounter, but if as you say the guy pulls away immediately then that is fine

we are talking about a man working in his professional capacity, representing the whole of Spanish football on a world stage, taking the opportunity to kiss a young woman while guessing, correctly, she wouldn't pull away and make a scene

I don't buy the exuberance argument at all, he's too old and too experienced and in too senior a professional job to let his guard off like that, IMO it was someone trying to take advantage, we will have to disagree on that because neither of us can prove we're right

Ultimately he let himself down either way and the signal it sends is too great to be ignored

You keep ignoring my point about letting him off being a green-light for any guy who fancies a quick snog in any context when people are celebrating, as they could say "it was just like Rubiales, I just got carried away" and also the woman thinking she has to accept it because Rubiales got away with it

If, in order to prevent many such scenarios, it means having to come down hard on Rubiales then so be it

My God you are pathetic!