When will Arteta be sacked by

[Mac76]

Can you name me a season where the first ten games were an utterly false negative and the season unfolded far better than how it started?. I’d have to go back to the 01/02 title winning season where like now our performances at home are decidedly ropey (even worse given we only won once in our first five league games at Highbury) although I’d say that the performances were good even if the results were not and you could see scope for improvement.

The 2020/21 season was a pretty poor start, losing five games and drawing another

[Mac76]

If Arteta doesn’t rate you, it’s very hard almost impossible to change his mind, and if you’re not worthy of playing in his team you’re not worthy of his time. You’ll see that a lot of people who left simply stated that they never even had a single conversation with Arteta between the time they joined and the time they left.

This is one of his key failings along with the inability to change games tactically once the first whistle has gone

[HCZ_Reborn]

Minor correction: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011...s_League_final

He won two with Barcelona. That was a brain fart, I meant to say Bayern Munich

[HCZ_Reborn]

The 2020/21 season was a pretty poor start, losing five games and drawing another

And do you regard finishing 8th as a successful season ?

[Letters]

the point being made isn’t that we will finish mid table

I know it isn't. Are you just deliberately trying to misunderstand me? The only time I mentioned mid-table was when I was talking about past seasons when people on here said we were going to finish mid-table or worse, based on poor starts to the season, and we didn't. I did so to evidence that early season form doesn't indicate where you'll end up. That said, while you can't win the title in the first 10 games you can certainly lose it. A catastrophic start would have all but ruled us out already, but we haven't had one. We're a point off the top.

And to say it’s too soon to suggest whether we will achieve more than that is wide of the mark. Likely we will finish in the top four, but not make a sustained title challenge.

Your confidence in that prediction is bewildering given your record of predictions this season and the past evidence I've presented.
Again, if we'd lost a bunch of games already then you could probably rule us out already, but we haven't. We're a point off the top.
I do think if City beat us it will mean you're likely to be correct though.

The point is, you’re not being clear what you do think is acceptable. Because it feels for me like you’re saying you do have the ambition but then you’re kind of getting a bit “now hold on a second” when it’s suggested that there are ways for us to reach it.

Well there's two things here. I'm not as convinced as you are that what you're suggesting is the way to reach it. I have explained why. You may disagree, well OK. We're both talking in hypotheticals.
And secondly I find it difficult to articulate what is acceptable. My general feeling is I want us to continue to make progress, while recognising that no team ever gets better year on year forever. We have strengthened over the summer but we have the demands of the CL this year which we didn't last. And we don't exist in a vacuum. If City and Liverpool have, for them, poor seasons and we don't capitalise and win the title then that will be more damning than if they both go mental, get 95+ points and we finish 3rd.

For the reasons I’ve suggested I think it is our time

Yes. But I don't agree. It's certainly not as clear as you suggest. So I'm not convinced there's anything to take advantage of.

And if you don’t think it’s clear that he is a barrier and that last season was his high water mark…I’d say the burden is on you to suggest why that might not be the case. And “well we don’t know yet” is simply not a response worthy of any serious consideration

What other response can there be? The season isn't finished. Your confidence in your foresight is baffling given your predictions so far and their outcomes.

especially when you have condemned people for being silly for stating that he can’t take us further.

Another point I have clarified and you have ignored. What I said was silly is this thread starting up again after one bad result. If there'd been a run of bad results then ok, but there hasn't been.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I know it isn't. Are you just deliberately trying to misunderstand me? The only time I mentioned mid-table was when I was talking about past seasons when people on here said we were going to finish mid-table or worse, based on poor starts to the season, and we didn't. I did so to evidence that early season form doesn't indicate where you'll end up. That said, while you can't win the title in the first 10 games you can certainly lose it. A catastrophic start would have all but ruled us out already, but we haven't had one. We're a point off the top.


Your confidence in that prediction is bewildering given your record of predictions this season and the past evidence I've presented.
Again, if we'd lost a bunch of games already then you could probably rule us out already, but we haven't. We're a point off the top.
I do think if City beat us it will mean you're likely to be correct though.


Well there's two things here. I'm not as convinced as you are that what you're suggesting is the way to reach it. I have explained why. You may disagree, well OK. We're both talking in hypotheticals.
And secondly I find it difficult to articulate what is acceptable. My general feeling is I want us to continue to make progress, while recognising that no team ever gets better year on year forever. We have strengthened over the summer but we have the demands of the CL this year which we didn't last. And we don't exist in a vacuum. If City and Liverpool have, for them, poor seasons and we don't capitalise and win the title then that will be more damning than if they both go mental, get 95+ points and we finish 3rd.


Yes. But I don't agree. It's certainly not as clear as you suggest. So I'm not convinced there's anything to take advantage of.


What other response can there be? The season isn't finished. Your confidence in your foresight is baffling given your predictions so far and their outcomes.


Another point I have clarified and you have ignored. What I said was silly is this thread starting up again after one bad result. If there'd been a run of bad results then ok, but there hasn't been.

You understand the meaning of the quote misattributed to Einstein “the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. The posts you referred to as silly earmarked the lessons Arteta seems to refuse to learn. The mistakes that are made that are so blindingly obvious that even a bunch of argumentative Middle Aged cunts on a football forum can see them.

And it’s not that Arteta is stupid (although I’m minded to think he’s definitely not as clever as he thinks he is) but he’s stubborn…and believes that he can make what does not work, work with persistence. And when you have that attitude you become blind to the obvious and enter a mindset of escalation of commitment.

You yourself already think we will lose to City at the weekend, and if you’re correct…that’s not just a one off setback, it’s a continuation of whats been going on for ages (I defy you to find me any team that has lost 12 times in a row in the league to city let alone 13) and it suggests we are no further forward than we are before. So yes sometimes one defeat is more than a single defeat, it essentially symbolises what is going wrong.

Defeat in itself is not a disaster, if you can trust that we can learn from it and adapt…but I don’t see evidence of that, and neither do the other people who posted here. What we saw on Tuesday was something that’s been on the cards for some considerable time.

You talk as if people were happy and content before the lens game and suddenly became agitated. No…we could have won every game this season and I’d still not be happy because the performances are not conducive to success and experience tells me that you can only play in a mediocre way for so long before it catches up with you.

Last season we had a small blip in October/November time (drawing with Southampton and losing to PSV) and the games before hand indicated that we weren’t playing well but were grinding out wins. Ultimately the big win at home to Forest got us going somewhat again.

This season we’ve had one decent performance one….and it’s not a surprise…we played a team that was massively too open and we took them apart (PSV). Other than that it’s been laboured, toothless and at times directionless. And my point is if you cared to watch games in their entirety, whilst i doubt it would change your mind on the topic it might give you a degree of understanding as to where people are coming from even if you differ with them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

What other response can there be?

I don’t think this guy is a good enough coach to get us where we want to be. He’s far too arrogant and single minded, he doubles down, he falls out with players on a whim meaning they are very publicly discarded and then it becomes hard to attain anything for them by way of transfer recoup.

I think if Arsenal are to meet their potential, and do everything in their power to get a league title in the next few years it will mean moving on the current manager probably no later than the end of the season. I don’t want him spending any more of the club’s money on pet project players that he seems unable to get the best out of.


That’s the other response.

That’s the response I have now, that’s the response I’m certain I will have in May barring a miracle.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And what is that miracle? By which I’d say I was wrong and Arteta deserves to be here after this season. Either winning the title (or being competitive right up to the last game of the season) or making it to at least the semi finals of the Champions league. The money we spent I feel demands no less

[WMUG]

Interesting discussion and a lot I agree with from both of you.

HCZ, just for clarity, are you saying that Arteta should be sacked if we don't achieve one of these?

Either winning the title (or being competitive right up to the last game of the season) or making it to at least the semi finals of the Champions league.

And Letters, do you have any solid criteria which you'd expect us to meet or Arteta should go?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Interesting discussion and a lot I agree with from both of you.

HCZ, just for clarity, are you saying that Arteta should be sacked if we don't achieve one of these?



And Letters, do you have any solid criteria which you'd expect us to meet or Arteta should go?

Yes

And If you think that’s harsh, I point you towards the money that has been spent since 2020.

And the money we spent in the summer should have been enough to push us forward from last season

And given I don’t think he will meet those expectations we should be going all out to have someone ready to sign an agreement with us as soon as he goes. No messing around hunting for a new coach after we’ve got rid