The Arsenal v Liverpool, Emirates stadium, 4.30pm Sunday 7 Januaey

[Letters]

Me and others actually at the game thought we were good in the first half apart obvs from failing to score.

I mean, we were good in the first half, but the failing to score thing is quite a big thing in football.
I'd almost prefer to see Angeball - you score 3, we'll score 4. It's not going to win Spurs the title but at least it's good to watch. It's just painful to watch us right now...and it's still not going to win us the title.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, yes. We were top at Christmas, thanks to an excellent performance at Anfield. A well deserved point away at a team who are widely tipped to be title contenders. So the West Ham result, while very disappointing, was no reason to lose our collective shit and push the panic button. Early in that game we were spanking them, the somewhat controversial goal allowed them to sit back and our lack of quality up front showed. It was a bad day in the office for sure, but it was but one game. If we over-reacted to every individual result or performance, good or bad, and we'd be all over the shop every season. I even said to you in the ensuing conversation that if we dropped points at Fulham I would probably take a different view. I didn't see that one but it was a poor result and by all accounts an awful performance. So the alarm bells starting ringing. And then there was today. With the players they had out they were there for the taking. And as we discussed earlier in this thread we were actually playing quite well. It was a better performance than West Ham. But the end result was the same, for the same reason. We had so many chances today - much better chances than we did against West Ham. And we just couldn't score. It's bloody awful. There have been ongoing concerns this season about the lack of quality up front but we seemed to be getting away with it. As I said, we were top at Christmas so we were doing something right. So I continue to believe that the reaction to the West Ham result were premature. Sure, you can pat yourself on the back if you like that I'm coming round to your way of thinking but you've got a shit-ton of predictions wrong this season. And it's not hypocrisy because I'm reacting to a run of results, not a single one. I may still be over-reacting, but we were so painful to watch today and against West Ham. Confidence seems to have been completely drained from the team.

We all knew we needed a striker. Arteta put a lot of eggs in the Havertz basket and now he has football pie all over his shirt. #partridge
Overall I like where Arteta has brought us. He made us into proper title contenders which we haven't been for a long time. But he's spent a lot of money and we've gone backwards since last season.

No im not being smug at all, I get no pleasure over having my concerns confirmed. Im saying I just resent it a wee bit when the same person who acts like I am being hysterical a week ago (when I simply stated that failure to sign a striker could fatally damage our top four hopes) was far more vitriolic today than i was against either West Ham or Fulham.

This is a club that takes up a great deal of time in the lives of all of us on here (well with the exception of the Shaqiri is Boss fella but he’s honest about where his loyalties lie) there’s no doubt we all have the propensity to become emotional, irrational at times but equally I know when I’m being irrational (like the start of the season) and when I’m soberly voicing my concerns.

[Letters]

I never disagreed with your concerns but up till Christmas we were largely getting away with it. Like I said, we were top.
So reactions to West Ham seemed like over-reactions. It was a one off game and while the concerns about the lack of a proper striker were laid bare in that game, it was but one game. We'd been doing OK before that, there was no immediate reason to think we wouldn't pick ourselves up in the next game. But we didn't, it's been a complete shit show since. I think a run of 3 games where we've failed to score is a little more reasonable a basis to react than one game. But as I've said, I may still be overreacting.

[Mac76]

I never disagreed with your concerns but up till Christmas we were largely getting away with it. Like I said, we were top.
So reactions to West Ham seemed like over-reactions. It was a one off game and while the concerns about the lack of a proper striker were laid bare in that game, it was but one game. We'd been doing OK before that, there was no immediate reason to think we wouldn't pick ourselves up in the next game. But we didn't, it's been a complete shit show since. I think a run of 3 games where we've failed to score is a little more reasonable a basis to react than one game. But as I've said, I may still be overreacting.

No, you're essentially admitting that you underreact - some of us can see the direction of travel more clearly and call for change, by your own admission you don't watch games so often, so fair enough if it's not as clear. But to me and many others it's clear that we're winning nothing unless an improvement of some kind is made in the management team - one example, our corners were all cack again today, how can any manager not see that's a problem?

[Marc Overmars]

We haven’t passed the eye test for most of the season and now the results are baring that out. I don’t believe we’re a bad team but the forwards are horribly out of form and the new look midfield has not worked. Rice is a fantastic player but it’s a one man show, he can’t do it all. I actually felt Jorginho played well yesterday and I would like to see him in the middle because he has the vision that Rice perhaps lacks. On paper they could work well together.

The season is far from over but it’s obvious there needs to be a monumental improvement for us to have a conversation about a successful season.

[Mac76]

Rice was really dissappointing yesterday, with Jorg there he should have been prepared to take the ball further upfield and be more enterprising in his passing but he was very conservative and defensive

[Letters]

No, you're essentially admitting that you underreact

I think that's fair, but neither over-reaction or under-reaction are sensible. I admit I err a little to the latter, but not as much as some err to the former.
Individual games tell you very little.
The Luton game was a good example - was that "the stuff of champions", winning late in a game where we'd been behind, a never say die spirit? Or was it a worrying sign that we'll win nothing with a 'keeper who throws 2 goals in, and worrying that we struggled to beat a team like Luton.
At the time it was impossible to tell.

Sure, there have been indications that there are weaknesses which would prevent us from winning the league, we've been discussing how blunt we are up front all season. But we were top at Christmas - having beaten City at home and getting a very creditable draw at Anfield. So we seemed to be managing to get goals despite the lack of a really top striker, and our defence was looking solid. Overall it looked like a side who would challenge, even if doubts about us actually being able to win the title remained.

To claim there were doubts about a top 4 finish one game after that performance and result at Anfield seemed - and still seems - like an over-reaction.
From the first half of the season it looked like us, City and Liverpool would be title contenders. Villa and Spurs are doing well but my view was (and remains) that they don't have the legs to sustain a challenge. It wasn't just me saying that, most people I spoke to felt that way.

some of us can see the direction of travel more clearly and call for change

You thought we'd be top at Christmas and then fall away? I'm struggling to believe your foresight as as 20:20 as you're claiming.
I think we all agreed we'd struggle to win the league without a top striker, I don't believe anyone foresaw the utter shitshow we've seen since Christmas.

our corners were all cack again today, how can any manager not see that's a problem?

Don't we have the best set piece record in the league? They gave that stat out yesterday and I've heard it before.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Rice was really dissappointing yesterday, with Jorg there he should have been prepared to take the ball further upfield and be more enterprising in his passing but he was very conservative and defensive

IMO the only thing Arteta got right was starting Jorg & Rice together. We looked solid and controlled and won back most balls as our midfield was petty balanced. This was similar to when we started of this season and he played this combo and at other times putting Partey in the mix.

The thing about Rice is he is definitely a quality player and makes the team harder to beat...but like some of us noticed from day ONE, he adds little when it comes to creativity or adding bite to our attacking moves. Its so clear that he is trying to learn that part of the game with the team but this should have been noticed before we bought him as its no bolt from the blue.

If Arteta's aim was to harden our midfield, Rice was a good way to go. But not pairing him with someone like a Kudus (who was available) or anyone else who could cover up for his deficiencies and give him on the game tutoring was stupid. Thinking a player like Havertz who was tried and tested and proven to excel in no important stat, would be a good pairing...was just effing crazy!!

I hope in the coming games we see more of Jorginho till Partey recovers. I'm not saying he should play 90mins, but I like what he offers, he's definitely a more all round player, even though he is coming to end of his career.

[Letters]

Rice wasn't the problem yesterday. We created plenty of chances, we just don't have anyone who can reliably put the ball into the net.
In the second half I couldn't even be bothered to get remotely excited when we went forward, it seemed unlikely we'd be able to apply the finishing touch and it became increasingly clear that Liverpool would just pick us off the first chance they got. Didn't quite work out that way, Ramsdale actually saved it, the first goal when it came was somewhat unfortunate. But the end result was the same.

[IBK]

IMO the only thing Arteta got right was starting Jorg & Rice together. We looked solid and controlled and won back most balls as our midfield was petty balanced. This was similar to when we started of this season and he played this combo and at other times putting Partey in the mix.

The thing about Rice is he is definitely a quality player and makes the team harder to beat...but like some of us noticed from day ONE, he adds little when it comes to creativity or adding bite to our attacking moves. Its so clear that he is trying to learn that part of the game with the team but this should have been noticed before we bought him as its no bolt from the blue.

If Arteta's aim was to harden our midfield, Rice was a good way to go. But not pairing him with someone like a Kudus (who was available) or anyone else who could cover up for his deficiencies and give him on the game tutoring was stupid. Thinking a player like Havertz who was tried and tested and proven to excel in no important stat, would be a good pairing...was just effing crazy!!

I hope in the coming games we see more of Jorginho till Partey recovers. I'm not saying he should play 90mins, but I like what he offers, he's definitely a more all round player, even though he is coming to end of his career.

Our front line is an embarrassing shambles and Arteta's lack of investment in forward areas of the pitch and lack of options there is coming back to bite us. That coupled with the fact that this 'control' obsession that sees us constantly too high up the pitch and begs for the opposition to counter on us has made a former impregnable defence look like a sieve.

We were schooled by Liverpool's ball delivery and scoring ability yesterday - all with them playing a weakened side.

I am at a loss to understand why players - Martinelli; Odegard, Saka - who were the reasons why we were so effective for 2/3rds of last season have regressed so much in terms of finishing. A collective lack of confidence? fatigue? There seemed to be more space at times for us yesterday than there has in previous games but no composure at all. Its sickening to have to concede that the majority of pundits had it right all along - we remain the flaky team that doesn't have what it takes to challenge for trophies despite the money we have spent.