Basically the problems England have, are succinctly summed up by the character Terence Fletcher in Whiplash “if you give a retard a calculator, he will use it to try and change the channel on the tv”
Basically the problems England have, are succinctly summed up by the character Terence Fletcher in Whiplash “if you give a retard a calculator, he will use it to try and change the channel on the tv”
It is, but I'm just a bit jaded by it all. I vaguely remember 86, you can say we woz robbed by the Hand of God, but we might not have won anyway.Originally Posted by Mac76
But then there was that run in 1990, 1996 and 1998 - 3 occasions where we were arguably better on the night and on each occasion it ended in heartbreak.
Since then it never felt we were that close to a tournament win but then Southgate took us to a World Cup semi-final and now two Euro finals.
That's why I feel over-criticism of him is harsh. It was the first World Cup semi-final since 1990, the first Euros finals ever, the first final on foreign soil ever. He hasn't delivered a trophy but he's gone closer than anyone else in my lifetime. And I may be many things but young is not one of them. I don't accept that's just luck of the draw or having good players. We've had those things before and not gone close.
The final a few years ago "broke" me a bit. I kinda felt that if we can't win a final on home soil with the crowd behind us then we never will. I'd allowed myself to believe we had a chance last night though, although acknowledging we weren't favourites.
It does feel like we're contenders again right now. I do feel we could do with a better manager. I'm just not confident it will propel us to glory. I've seen it all too many times.
I honestly don't care where players play their club football. When they've got the England shirt on I'll support them, even if I have to hold my nose for some of them. I do care about the bad football, the group stage in particular was painful.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong - I hope a new manager comes on and we win the next World Cup and you can all say "see?". I could take that if it meant we'd gone and won the thing. But I fear we will crash and burn again and then it'll be "if only we had a better manager". Rinse and repeat. I've seen it for decades, it wears you down in the end.
I get that, the difference for me is i've been emotionally tuned out of England for a decade or more, so I've not been as down when they've come close but failed
But I definitely think a team without Southgate, Vegas, Kane and Tripper is something I could get behind, providing it's a sensible manager who knows how to bring the best out of a team
I'm not sure Potter is capable of doing that, he's more of a mid-table-team guy
Klopp would be great but I dont think he'll go for it
I think what you're saying is...
Wenger In!
For me it’s about purely recognising when a national side has four or five world class players in it, and a few more that have the potential to get there
Spain even as far back as 2004 it was obvious there was something there that just needed the finishing touches put on it, same with the Germany team under Joachim Low.
The penalty shootout loss against Italy didn’t bother me because I felt there was something there to build upon. I don’t really get that emotionally involved with England because Arsenal will always be more important to me than the national team.
But now, it feels like the potential we have is being squandered by misplaced loyalty. Nothing is guaranteed, but winners are ruthless. Keeping Southgate is a signal by the FA that winning things isn’t all that important. And to squander a chance to win the World Cup in two years, which for me stands out as being the first time in my life where I genuinely believe we can win the World Cup. And for me would an absolute signal of English mediocrity, the unwillingness to put sentiment aside
In respect of what Letters has said, all I can say is whilst I appreciate that this whole “we would have won if not for X” has been around for decades. The difference is, in the main that boast has carried as much weight as a Spurs fan saying it about their own team. What’s difference this time is that there’s a clear ring of truth about it. I normally wouldn’t listen to anything Alan Shearer says but he spoke a lot about “moments” from this team, and for a moment in that final we did the thing that up until that point in the tournament only Germany had managed, we made them shit themselves….and look ordinary.
It ultimately didn’t work for Germany, but they at least tried. This Spain side played very well but in the annuls of great teams they won’t be remembered. The coach did well to build a team around one world class player and get good football out of them….but Germany found them out and were unlucky not to punish them. We didn’t fucking try and have better players than Germany
Yes that was itI think what you're saying is...
Wenger In!
An alternative explanation of course is that the FA believe that he is the right person to give us the best chance to win us the World Cup.
You may violently disagree of course, but it's one of those unknowable things.
I don't think we'll win the World Cup in 2 years time. If Southgate is in charge you're going to say "see?", and I'm going to say "we wouldn't have won it with <insert manager here> either". And there will be some back and forth but the honest truth is we'll never really know.
Emery is clearly a good manager but he didn't work out at Arsenal. There are different skills required for club management and national team management. It's not a given that another manager, even if they have a good record elsewhere, would do a good job with England.
I would remind you that you spent a fair amount of time last season saying Arteta should be fired.
I don't think Southgate will win us the next World Cup, but it's not obvious to me that someone else would give us a better chance.
But again we’ve established the basis for your opinion is based on the emotional impact of hearing silly people saying we should be winning this or that at a time when it wasn’t really remotely feasible. The only time before now we had a realistic prospect of the World Cup was perhaps 2006 and the problem was even then that there were too many teams of a similar or slightly better level. This simply is not the case now.
No I don’t believe they think Southgate is the best person for the job. I don’t think you believe they think that either.
I don’t really see what Arteta has to do with this situation, other than your natural tendency towards conservatism which was on display when it was abundantly clear Wenger should go and you were quite late in realising it. I’m still not convinced Arteta is the right man for the job, at the moment he is achieving slightly less than what he should be given the money he’s spent but has probably done just enough to earn him a stay of execution.
Actually no I take it back, the parallel is there in that I think Arsenal need to be in a place where we are in pole position to potentially dominate if either Ming the Merciless goes (although his ability as a coach is overstated) or City get the punishment that’s long overdue to them. There was a glimmer that the mentality was good enough that we will be ready to take over if either happens, but doesn’t encourage me that we are still pissing about with spending money on defenders when it’s clearly at best a third or fourth order priority
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 15-07-2024 at 02:06 PM.
Again it’s a simple proposition, you won’t hear me say we will win the World Cup in two years time with a different coach, the difference is we can win it and there’s no reason why we wouldn’t go in as favourites
Though that’s often a millstone around Brazil’s neck
It’s possible we’ve left it too late, and that the FA should have replaced Southgate after Qatar. Then I think we would have won Euro 2024 and in doing so laid the ground work for the World Cup. That’s not undue arrogance it’s just a reflection of the fact that most other teams weren’t of great quality in Euro 2024 otherwise a team like Spain would have had no business being in the final let alone winning the thing
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