When will Arteta be sacked by

[HCZ_Reborn]

This sums up exactly how I feel, mate. Re Letters' post I don't think you are calling for Arteta's head as such, rather expressing your real concerns that we are plateauing under him.

I get HCZ saying that its the league cup so it doesn't matter. But for me its not the competition so much as the fact that essentially Newcastle swatted us aside. The sad fact is that I think they would half-expected to do so. Without Saka teams do not fear us - and most of the coaches in the league now seem to understand precisely how to blunt our mediocre front line - and have also worked out our set pieces.

I go back to 2005/2006 when we had Thierry Henry and a developing Robin Van Persie up front. But especially away from home our build up play was so much slower without Vieira that we lost countless games without scoring or creating chances.
Having a top striker will only get you so far unless we change the way we play, especially against teams like Newcastle who aren’t especially great but carry a sting in the tail. We need more creativity in the team to move the ball forward quicker and stretch the play. Arteta is obsessed with recreating the Xhaka role because he was capable of long passes that set players away and that’s what we don’t have now so much….i think he’s wrong

[Letters]

Fair enough, I’ve never liked him on a personal level…

You don't know him on a personal level

[IBK]

I go back to 2005/2006 when we had Thierry Henry and a developing Robin Van Persie up front. But especially away from home our build up play was so much slower without Vieira that we lost countless games without scoring or creating chances.
Having a top striker will only get you so far unless we change the way we play, especially against teams like Newcastle who aren’t especially great but carry a sting in the tail. We need more creativity in the team to move the ball forward quicker and stretch the play. Arteta is obsessed with recreating the Xhaka role because he was capable of long passes that set players away and that’s what we don’t have now so much….i think he’s wrong

Couldn't agree more with you re transitions, as I've stated on the other thread. And I also agree that even the fabled 'top striker' would struggle in Areteta's current system (albeit that our Xg is good, so we would be doing better than we are). I don't agree with you re Newcastle though. They are hitting form, and when on form they are very good. Excellent defence when set; quick transitions and crrrently the best striker in the league.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You don't know him on a personal level

You don’t know Trump on a personal level but it’s not stopped you discussing what kind of person he is

Maybe Arteta in private is warm, likeable, good humoured and charismatic

Usually you’d see evidence of it on the surface though

[Letters]

You don’t know Trump on a personal level but it’s not stopped you discussing what kind of person he is

At a very high level. And based on not just his words and actions, but testimony from people who know him.
Your analysis of Arteta's body language in an edited reality TV show and your pontifications about his marriage based on that are ludicrous.

[HCZ_Reborn]

At a very high level. And based on not just his words and actions, but testimony from people who know him.
Your analysis of Arteta's body language in an edited reality TV show and your pontifications about his marriage based on that are ludicrous.

You’re worse than me honestly. You said edited as if that means anything. Answer me this, why would it have been edited to make him seem worse than he is. In many respects these documentaries are sanitised PR exercises for the club, if you genuinely think it’s been edited to make him look worse than I don’t know what to tell you

In the same program you see Xhaka go home to his partner and children and is demonstrably affectionate. Arteta isn’t…..it’s possible that he didn’t feel comfortable being so whilst on camera. But again from what I know of body language and the non verbal tells, the guy demonstrates traits of being on the spectrum. That’s not why I don’t like him…I don’t like him because he’s arrogant without cause to be, and comes across cold, passive aggressive and without much personality.

I’ve seen enough of Arteta in press conferences as well as that documentary to suggest that if he has a warm, ebullient side to him. He’s done a great job of hiding it

[IBK]

You don’t know Trump on a personal level but it’s not stopped you discussing what kind of person he is

Maybe Arteta in private is warm, likeable, good humoured and charismatic

Usually you’d see evidence of it on the surface though

I think where I am getting to with Arteta is that I appreciate what he has done for the club since he joined us. We were completely in the wilderness, and we are now in the conversation for the league and the CL - a place that we had not been in for a decade previously.

I coudn't care less about his personality. Personally I think he is more maligned than he deserves to be by many pundits, but like Guardiola - an obsessive personality will be tolerated, even admired when it yields results, and critcised when it does not. What matters is whether his players are behind him - they clearly are (for now), and whether potential transfers want to play under him - they clearly do. This latter factor depends however on whether they see (1) that they will develop under him, and (2) the opportunity to win things.

This is where we are now. I maintain that we progressed as a team under Arteta up until recently. Now, it seems that like many of his players he is plateauing, and even regressing. It happens. Wenger's permissive style - focussing on science and free flowing football was successful, but then other clubs caught up and he had his day. What were benefits became hiderances, and we saw the inevitable myopia that comes with unrestricted power, after David Dein's departure.

I wonder whether Arteta's stubborness; obsession with small margins (seemingly sometimes at the expense of the bigger picture), and apparent belief that a rigid possession based system is the only blueprint - despite it seeming suddenly flawed - is a 'terminal' issue that will prevent us from succeeding? The problem is that for all the (some justified) excuses, we are at stage 5 of his own plan and failure to land a big trophy this season will show that he does not quite have what it takes.

I am, and have always been very wary of thinking the grass is greener elsewhere. Not many managers can do a Slot. Most managerial changes intended to secure titles - particularly those that were not accompanied with oligarch or nation stage amounts of cash (not so possible these days with PSR) - do not work out, or require a step backwards before progress is made. There will have to come a time soon, however, where unless we are going to squander a talented squad, we will need to change direction.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Actually Slot I think actually proves that you don’t need someone special. What Slot has done is put his ego to one side, and just worked with what he has. There was evidence he tried to meddle with the blueprint left for him by Klopp early on in the season. There were a few games where they were trying to slow the game down and I think he had to re-think this after losing to Forest.
Many egomaniacs would want to win using their own style rather than the one their predecessor left for them. I would, my ego wouldn’t allow me to think I was just benefitting from my predecessors work. But credit to Slot for putting those feelings to one side

[Mac76]

Actually Slot I think actually proves that you don’t need someone special. What Slot has done is put his ego to one side, and just worked with what he has. There was evidence he tried to meddle with the blueprint left for him by Klopp early on in the season. There were a few games where they were trying to slow the game down and I think he had to re-think this after losing to Forest.
Many egomaniacs would want to win using their own style rather than the one their predecessor left for them. I would, my ego wouldn’t allow me to think I was just benefitting from my predecessors work. But credit to Slot for putting those feelings to one side

but aren't they then the very qualities that make him 'special' - the ability to not let his ego get in the way and let still be able to fight his way to the top and command respect at a very senior level in the game?

[HCZ_Reborn]

but aren't they then the very qualities that make him 'special' - the ability to not let his ego get in the way and let still be able to fight his way to the top and command respect at a very senior level in the game?

If we all assume that coaches are massive egomaniacs and someone who isn’t stands out, then yes sure I guess

We will see exactly how special Slot is when it comes time to dealing with the big egos in his dressing room. We’ve heard rumours about disquiet and about Van Dijk getting the hump with Trent Alexander Arnold. With Klopp, I think the players knew who was boss…I don’t know enough about Slot but he so far at least to me seems more content to step into the background.

It’s hard, ostensibly I think we could do with someone who is just a functionary to pick the team and do training. But that’s because I don’t think we have massive egos at the club. The question then becomes do you need big egos in the team who have that utter self belief to give them that extra bit