Arsenal 0-1 West Ham Match Reaction

[KSE Comedy Club]

Of course there’s always space on a pitch, but if a team comes to defend that space will tend to be behind you and only in front of your opponents

It’s got nothing to do with style of play it’s to do with the fact that defenders and especially full backs are quicker and fitter than they used to be, if you’ve got a speed merchant on the wing the defence will double up on him, if you’ve got two (which we don’t currently) the job is much harder.

There is something to be said for being able to get the ball forward quickly but again only possible if you have someone technically competent in central midfield, we don’t…

As for Pep ball, you again are somehow convinced that the slow metronomic passing is a feature of a system. It’s not, it’s a consequence of where the team has been able to maintain their defensive shape before you’ve got into their third.

Of course you can pull players out of position and stretch play, but it’s a hell of a lot more difficult when a team has committed to positional discipline and only coming forward on the break.

Yes but teams find it easy to defend against us entirely because we are too slow to attack.

We are more concerned with racking up the possession and no. of passes completed stats to worry about actually running up the pitch directly, and putting the defences under any sort of pressure.

Instead they have a good 5 minutes to get their whole team back in the 18 yard a box and line up ready to stop our pass the ball the death attacking.

[Mac76]

Anyway that’s mine and Letter’s feud. Don’t try and muscle in on it

No, I've always said you were inferring much more from that show than was possible

and meanwhile, you told me that watching people live, unedited, at games wasn't a way of assessing the manager's relationship with certain players

[HCZ_Reborn]

No, I've always said you were inferring much more from that show than was possible

and meanwhile, you told me that watching people live, unedited, at games wasn't a way of assessing the manager's relationship with certain players

Realising the fact that short of upper case and exclamation marks, there isn’t a “tone” to text. Thus the laughing chap tends to denote that when I say something, it’s not being said seriously. I have no doubt you hold that opinion, it was just a remark that it was largely something Letters and I bickered about for…a while I think


Hope that clears that one up


Also I hope you can appreciate the difference between directly observed interaction (albeit as has been stated on an edited documentary) and something you think you can see from the stands which you wouldn’t be able to see unless you were Inspector Gadget with an inbuilt zoom function in your eyes

That seems significantly different to me, perhaps not to you

[IBK]

I don’t really agree. Apart from anything else this team is a unit so it’s not 100% fair to assess individual performances without including the context of who they are playing with (and more importantly without)

At almost every point this season the side we’ve put out is a patched up side. In fact I can only think of one game where we had our strongest side available to us and that was away at Sporting Lisbon. And we demolished them

The only two players who I think have noticeably been poorer this season than last are Trossard and Odegaard. Trossard hasn’t been terrible but compared to last season the goal output hasn’t been there, and Odegaard looks unfit and he looks bereft of confidence.

For me the only other thing that is different is in the second half of the season we had the set piece routine to allow us to break down stubborn teams and then we could go berserk (and that accounts for why in the last 18 games we averaged 3 goals a game)

I think where I would agree with you is that there was a complacency in believing that what worked in 23/24 would work now. But to suggest the whole team is regressing, or we need to tear things up and begin again is for me a panic measure. Now it might seem hypocritical me saying this when I’ve been screaming for Arteta’s head congealed in its own evil blood. But actually the system and the squad is largely what I’ve wanted to preserve.


The main thrust of this team is that we are hard to beat, and that’s largely proven to be the case. There is adaptation for sure that’s needed, but when you look at what we’ve had to put up with in terms of being able to put out a team, and the way we’ve overplayed so many players….it would seem churlish to throw the baby out with the bath water

A fair counter. And I appreciate of course that we have been hurt by injuries. But I don't think your analysis of our players' form is correct. Starting from the back, Saliba has been uncharacteristically shaky in a number of games now - having been near perfect last season. I don't need to argue Zinchenko and Kiwior. In MF Rice was acknowledged as in poor form during the first part of the season, and has been patchy since. Martinelli has been largely indifferent. Before his injury, Havertz was not producing the output of last season. You've acknowledged Trossard and Odegard. In general terms, I just don't think the players we have available have clicked like they did last time around.

As for the system - well it is clearly not working very well. I think that one of our problems is that even when we had most of our players fit we continue to struggle against the mid/low block. We are also now seeing goals scored against us from a very limited number of opposition chances - an issue that arises partly because we continue to play a high line to no effect in terms of scoring.

We have a dearth of strikers and with the malaise of our single point of creativity from MF we look ineffectual, and vulnerable to the counter.

Maybe with everything going for us and everyone fit and on form things would be different. But I don't think you sustain a title challenge with one or two single points of failure. We don't have signicant injury problems outside our front 3, so why do we seem so easy to score against? I don't think I said that we need to tear everything up and start again, but I think only the biggest optimist would argue that there is a lot of work for us to do in the Summer to get this team on a winning track again.

[Mac76]

Also I hope you can appreciate the difference between directly observed interaction (albeit as has been stated on an edited documentary) and something you think you can see from the stands which you wouldn’t be able to see unless you were Inspector Gadget with an inbuilt zoom function in your eyes

So why do people go to football games if they can't see anything? Gosh if that's the case a lot of people have been ripped off for over 150 years

[Mac76]

Yes but teams find it easy to defend against us entirely because we are too slow to attack.

We are more concerned with racking up the possession and no. of passes completed stats to worry about actually running up the pitch directly, and putting the defences under any sort of pressure.

Instead they have a good 5 minutes to get their whole team back in the 18 yard a box and line up ready to stop our pass the ball the death attacking.

This, this, this, this, this, this, th-well, you get the picture

[HCZ_Reborn]

So why do people go to football games if they can't see anything? Gosh if that's the case a lot of people have been ripped off for over 150 years

So if a footballer scores at the opposite end of the pitch from where you’re standing you can see in Crystal 20/20 their facial expression, their mannerisms as much as you could if you were watching them from a private drone cam following them about everywhere.

I would say don’t be obtuse, but that’s just been ruined forever by The Shawshank Redemption

Plus for me the jury is out on whether it’s something you do deliberately or you really are that slow

[HCZ_Reborn]

A fair counter. And I appreciate of course that we have been hurt by injuries. But I don't think your analysis of our players' form is correct. Starting from the back, Saliba has been uncharacteristically shaky in a number of games now - having been near perfect last season. I don't need to argue Zinchenko and Kiwior. In MF Rice was acknowledged as in poor form during the first part of the season, and has been patchy since. Martinelli has been largely indifferent. Before his injury, Havertz was not producing the output of last season. You've acknowledged Trossard and Odegard. In general terms, I just don't think the players we have available have clicked like they did last time around.

As for the system - well it is clearly not working very well. I think that one of our problems is that even when we had most of our players fit we continue to struggle against the mid/low block. We are also now seeing goals scored against us from a very limited number of opposition chances - an issue that arises partly because we continue to play a high line to no effect in terms of scoring.

We have a dearth of strikers and with the malaise of our single point of creativity from MF we look ineffectual, and vulnerable to the counter.

Maybe with everything going for us and everyone fit and on form things would be different. But I don't think you sustain a title challenge with one or two single points of failure. We don't have signicant injury problems outside our front 3, so why do we seem so easy to score against? I don't think I said that we need to tear everything up and start again, but I think only the biggest optimist would argue that there is a lot of work for us to do in the Summer to get this team on a winning track again.

I’m no fan of the system. I’ve been very outspoken in saying I don’t enjoy the football we play. But as I say no system is infallible/fool proof. My feeling and my concern is that Arteta wants to model us on the Euro 2024 Spain team. The most noticeable aspect of that team was that the centre forward was largely the most peripheral part of that team. Alvaro Morata at his best was never prolific, and he certainly wasn’t at his best during that tournament. A bit like Havertz for Germany the role of the front man was to hold up the ball and create space for others. But then Germany also had an old fashioned meat and potatoes centre forward in Fullkrug to throw on.


The question is whether we are willing to change our tactics slightly. The most aggravated I’ve been with our system and our manager’s dogmatic reliance on it was against Everton at home. We were struggling to break down Everton yet he made like for like swaps rather than play Odegaard and Nwaneri together. Would it have worked thus turning a draw into a win? I have no idea but the refusal to even countenance it absolutely incensed me.


This is for me the only game I can think of where the system was the primary reason for dropping points, in terms of it being more relevant than other factors.

I don’t think we have the players to break down a stubborn defence like Newcastle. They have always dealt with our set pieces well even when we have had everyone available and they could become our bogey team. Equally a lot of what I’d call upper mid table teams give us problem, because they are able to keep us at bay and then catch us out with a long ball


A route one striker and a player that isn’t Xhaka but has his ability for long passes might not go amiss

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’m no fan of the system. I’ve been very outspoken in saying I don’t enjoy the football we play. But as I say no system is infallible/fool proof. My feeling and my concern is that Arteta wants to model us on the Euro 2024 Spain team. The most noticeable aspect of that team was that the centre forward was largely the most peripheral part of that team. Alvaro Morata at his best was never prolific, and he certainly wasn’t at his best during that tournament. A bit like Havertz for Germany the role of the front man was to hold up the ball and create space for others. But then Germany also had an old fashioned meat and potatoes centre forward in Fullkrug to throw on.


The question is whether we are willing to change our tactics slightly. The most aggravated I’ve been with our system and our manager’s dogmatic reliance on it was against Everton at home. We were struggling to break down Everton yet he made like for like swaps rather than play Odegaard and Nwaneri together. Would it have worked thus turning a draw into a win? I have no idea but the refusal to even countenance it absolutely incensed me.


This is for me the only game I can think of where the system was the primary reason for dropping points, in terms of it being more relevant than other factors.

I don’t think we have the players to break down a stubborn defence like Newcastle. They have always dealt with our set pieces well even when we have had everyone available and they could become our bogey team. Equally a lot of what I’d call upper mid table teams give us problem, because they are able to keep us at bay and then catch us out with a long ball


A route one striker and a player that isn’t Xhaka but has his ability for long passes might not go amiss

It's a very simple fix - the best form of football that everyone knows works - quick, counter attacking.

Speed and agility is what we need to add to our game.

50,000 pass football is demonstrably dogshit.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's a very simple fix - the best form of football that everyone knows works - quick, counter attacking.

Speed and agility is what we need to add to our game.

50,000 pass football is demonstrably dogshit.

I don’t want to sound patronising and ask you why it’s called counter attacking football. But the clue is in the name

The reason we scored an average of three a game in the second half of last season was counter attack. But in order to play on the counter attack, you have to open the scoring to begin with or you have to have a side that will come out and attack. Death by a thousand passes is often a consequence not a feature. The alternative to what we are doing isn’t counter attack it’s route one football….and that would be lovely if we had the type of players who could a) play a decent long ball b) trap a decent long ball.

Deck chairs on the Titanic as I keep saying