Arsenal 0-1 West Ham Match Reaction

[Niall_Quinn]

I would say the resistance is coming at you more because you seem to think we don't have any player capable of doing the basics in football, every team plays one way against us but you seemingly won't acknowledge why that is, you treat everyone on here like they are idiots & you are incapable of having a general discussion without your superiority complex taking over.

Sounds like me - LOL, except I don't believe we lack the players to give us something worth watching.

This can be boiled down to an even simpler demand, can't it?

Please, for the love of God! SHOOOT! Or run. Or do something that doesn't have me tearing my eyes out. Ours are the only games I watch where I look at the clock and it's gone backwards. I've often wondered if I could get a week's work done during the first half of one of our games. At least under Wenger he let the players stray a couple of inches from the Way of the Pep. But when you see our lot now and you see that ball played with a bit more directness (on rare occasions) and then watch the recipient stood stock still, back to goal - then Partey runs over and indicates the ball should be played anywhere except to him, then Odegard gets it and runs this way, short pass, return pass, runs that way, short pass, return pass... Then gets tackled by Raya on his way up the pitch.

There's no way in a million years this is the only way we can play, injuries or not. This is almost as bad an excuse as nobody being available in the January window. I'll take the red cards, injuries, lucky Liverpool excuses over the idea our players can't play.

Our manager won't let them. That's the problem.

[Mac76]

Are you still working from the assumption that someone could only disagree with you to be contrary

Are you that conceited that you don’t believe anyone could disagree with your opinions

That’s not rhetorical, I genuinely want to know

nothing to do with any of that, it's just most people might exchange a fewe thoughts or points or indeed contrary ideas, but most people then just think 'whatever' but you just carry on and on and on to make sure you get the last word and then you can tell yoruself it must mean you were right about whatever it was

[Mac76]

that’s exactly what happened against West Ham.

just watched it again, Cala's with AW-B all the way but stands off him which gives him the space to cross - exactly what I said

[HCZ_Reborn]

nothing to do with any of that, it's just most people might exchange a fewe thoughts or points or indeed contrary ideas, but most people then just think 'whatever' but you just carry on and on and on to make sure you get the last word and then you can tell yoruself it must mean you were right about whatever it was

You do realise you’re describing yourself just as much as you’re describing me

It really depends who we are arguing with on here. There are people like yourself who I will have endless back and forths with. Just because you might give up before me doesn’t mean you aren’t driven to have the last word when you think you’re right. There are other people where as you say it’s a few exchanges. To put it frankly the length and aggressiveness of the discussion is dependent on whether the person has a big an ego as me. You certainly do, Letters does, NQ does and to a lesser extent so does that 21 Gun salute chap (although he also lacks the stamina)

My point was that the other day you were suggesting that I was disagreeing with you for the sake of it. Nope. Also where my fault lies is that I don’t want to give the impression that I’ve ceded my point of view when I think I’m right.

I don’t need to convince myself I’m right (I already think I am otherwise I wouldn’t make the argument to begin with)

I’ve admitted countless times to that though

[HCZ_Reborn]

just watched it again, Cala's with AW-B all the way but stands off him which gives him the space to cross - exactly what I said

So I’m going to say yes you’re right he is there all the way with AW-B (I can’t deny that it’s there as a fact). I’m thinking of another time in the game where AW-B is motoring away and he’s nowhere and it’s Rice chasing after him. I’m going to say I disagree with you that he stands off him though I think he remains quite tight to him and short of sliding in I don’t think there’s much more he can do.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Sounds like me - LOL, except I don't believe we lack the players to give us something worth watching.

This can be boiled down to an even simpler demand, can't it?

Please, for the love of God! SHOOOT! Or run. Or do something that doesn't have me tearing my eyes out. Ours are the only games I watch where I look at the clock and it's gone backwards. I've often wondered if I could get a week's work done during the first half of one of our games. At least under Wenger he let the players stray a couple of inches from the Way of the Pep. But when you see our lot now and you see that ball played with a bit more directness (on rare occasions) and then watch the recipient stood stock still, back to goal - then Partey runs over and indicates the ball should be played anywhere except to him, then Odegard gets it and runs this way, short pass, return pass, runs that way, short pass, return pass... Then gets tackled by Raya on his way up the pitch.

There's no way in a million years this is the only way we can play, injuries or not. This is almost as bad an excuse as nobody being available in the January window. I'll take the red cards, injuries, lucky Liverpool excuses over the idea our players can't play.

Our manager won't let them. That's the problem.

I agree, these players do know how to do those things you have said, they just seem like they know they will be getting a massive bollocking if they dare try!

[HCZ_Reborn]

I agree, these players do know how to do those things you have said, they just seem like they know they will be getting a massive bollocking if they dare try!

My experience watching us for years is that players will put on an extra pass when they aren’t confident. Havertz against Man City for example squared to Odegaard who had to take a touch for our first goal against City last month

It’s indicative for me of people lacking the confidence in their own ability to put it in the net. Partey apart from anything else loves taking on shots from outside the box and I’ve never had reason to believe he’s been actively discouraged to do so. There is of course a system designed to strangle the life out of opposition and it is rigid, but equally you’ve seen players fairly recently break out and try something individualist. Odegaard stank the place out first half against Ipswich but then decided to go on a couple of solo runs in the second half of that game to open up space, as far as I’m aware he wasn’t bollocked or dropped in the next game for this.

I think Arteta might do that only if in doing so a player played their way into trouble, giving the ball away in a dangerous area, at least unlike Guardiola he won’t try and berate the players on the pitch.

I still very much think a lot of people on here, are doing everything to avoid accepting the fact that our ability to score goals which was far from consistent when we had everyone fit, is now greatly diminished because of what’s available to us.

But again, so there’s no confusion in terms of talking at cross purposes. If it’s argued that we shouldn’t rigidly stick to this system and go for a more direct style of play (I’m not going to say counter attack because most teams are not going to go on the front foot against us) and work on a route one alternative and bring in technically minded footballers. Of course I agree with that, I’ve said as much for long enough

[IBK]

My experience watching us for years is that players will put on an extra pass when they aren’t confident. Havertz against Man City for example squared to Odegaard who had to take a touch for our first goal against City last month

It’s indicative for me of people lacking the confidence in their own ability to put it in the net. Partey apart from anything else loves taking on shots from outside the box and I’ve never had reason to believe he’s been actively discouraged to do so. There is of course a system designed to strangle the life out of opposition and it is rigid, but equally you’ve seen players fairly recently break out and try something individualist. Odegaard stank the place out first half against Ipswich but then decided to go on a couple of solo runs in the second half of that game to open up space, as far as I’m aware he wasn’t bollocked or dropped in the next game for this.

I think Arteta might do that only if in doing so a player played their way into trouble, giving the ball away in a dangerous area, at least unlike Guardiola he won’t try and berate the players on the pitch.

I still very much think a lot of people on here, are doing everything to avoid accepting the fact that our ability to score goals which was far from consistent when we had everyone fit, is now greatly diminished because of what’s available to us.

But again, so there’s no confusion in terms of talking at cross purposes. If it’s argued that we shouldn’t rigidly stick to this system and go for a more direct style of play (I’m not going to say counter attack because most teams are not going to go on the front foot against us) and work on a route one alternative and bring in technically minded footballers. Of course I agree with that, I’ve said as much for long enough

Bingo - highlighted.

Re the confidence issue - its not difficult to see the reason for this. Our system is difficult to play in. As I've said on the other thread, we have too many hybrid players not simply asked to do the thing they are best at. Plus ironically our patient build up style congests the final third and means that the level of technical ability to progress the ball forwards is through the roof. Odegard and Jesus at their best, and Saka because he is world class could manage this. Noone else can. We make it too difficult for ourselves, IMO.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bingo - highlighted.

Re the confidence issue - its not difficult to see the reason for this. Our system is difficult to play in. As I've said on the other thread, we have too many hybrid players not simply asked to do the thing they are best at. Plus ironically our patient build up style congests the final third and means that the level of technical ability to progress the ball forwards is through the roof. Odegard and Jesus at their best, and Saka because he is world class could manage this. Noone else can. We make it too difficult for ourselves, IMO.

I think the confidence or lack there of has been more present in the last few months. Players like Odegaard etc seems reluctant to take anyone on let alone take shots on. Ultimately as I say the system is far from the top reason we are where we are, in that far more results have been attributable to either the players we lack due to injury or shocking refereeing decisions.


I think in attack we’ve unquestionably become too dependent on Saka, but I think as much as the system he is the player up front who has the most individual skill.

I think not strengthening and in fact making the squad smaller is far more of a contributing factor. It’s not that I don’t think the system should change, it’s that with the injuries we’ve had and the players we’ve overused…..we’d be pretty much in the same position anyway.

There are a couple of games like Fulham and Everton where I think we could have been a lot more ambitious with who we had on the pitch. And as I’ve repeatedly said, with a fully fit squad there’s no need to play two defensive midfielders in most home games….which I think hinders us in terms of getting the ball forward quicker (and then we can talk about passing the ball into space etc, because the space will exist)

[HCZ_Reborn]

I re-watched the games against West Ham and Forest, against West Ham we weren’t great but I’ve seen far worse performances where we’ve won games in the last couple of years. If the option was there I’d drop Odegaard for a few matches because he looks like he’s running on fumes and has barely had a break since he returned from injury (we really wouldn’t be any worse off with Vieira still here stepping in).
Against Forest I thought we played reasonably well, but in neither game were we coughing up loads of chances to the opposing team, and although the attacking build up was a bit slow at times. It felt to me like whether the opposition defence had, had time to get back in shape or not….we weren’t going to make the net bulge. Few players seemed to want to try and take shots on, Trossard worked hard but always seemed to be getting the ball trapped under his feet rather than being able to shoot first time and Merino lacked the movement of Havertz to get himself in place on the occasion when crosses did come in