Arsenal vs Crystal Palace 23.04.2025 - KO 20:00 GMT

[Letters]

Late to this, but I have 4 reasons why finishing second is important.

1. We have been 'nailed on' in second place for a while - in a season where the traditional challengers have been pretty shocking. To lose this position having been well clear of the rest would represent a capitulation. This is never a good look or feel, whatever the surrounding circumstances.

2. A team with aspirations to win the league should treat every game as important and look to win it. The league was won a few weeks ago. This doesn't mean that we should not fight to secure the best finish possible - ie 2nd.

3. Similarly, a team with our aspirations wants to be able to compete on all fronts. Falling off an established position in the league because we are in the final stages of the CL indicates an inability to do this - which is counter to this objective.

4. Like I said in the post you were responding to, our team at its best is all about focus and control. This is not something that we should be looking to switch on and off, it should be a constant. Winning games; keeping leads; doing what is needed to get over the line is a habit. Failing to do so dents confidence and security. Our 'line' since 6 weeks ago has been second.

I've said that I don't think the Palace game will set the pattern for tomorrow night and next week. But we need (1) to address the drawing habit that has done for our title challenge this season, and (2) show that we have the resolve not to allow our leage position to fall away at the death.

I can see most of those arguments, I just don't think any of them are as important as you and some others are making out.
Number 3 in particular - context is important here. We mathematically aren't in the title race now but in practice haven't been in one for a couple of months now. A bit of pragmatic prioritisation of games is understandable. Multiple examples have been provided from past seasons when we did that and ended up with the trophy.
I'll be a bit annoyed if we don't finish 2nd, but it hasn't been a 2 horse race this year, in reality there hasn't been a race.
Finish 4th and win the CL or finish 2nd and don't? It's a no brainer.
Gut feeling is we won't win the CL, in that context slipping from 2nd would be even more disappointing, but for me it wouldn't add that much to the disappointment of this complete shitshow of a season anyway. Only the CL can rescue it now.

[IBK]

I can see most of those arguments, I just don't think any of them are as important as you and some others are making out.
Number 3 in particular - context is important here. We mathematically aren't in the title race now but in practice haven't been in one for a couple of months now. A bit of pragmatic prioritisation of games is understandable. Multiple examples have been provided from past seasons when we did that and ended up with the trophy.
I'll be a bit annoyed if we don't finish 2nd, but it hasn't been a 2 horse race this year, in reality there hasn't been a race.
Finish 4th and win the CL or finish 2nd and don't? It's a no brainer.
Gut feeling is we won't win the CL, in that context slipping from 2nd would be even more disappointing, but for me it wouldn't add that much to the disappointment of this complete shitshow of a season anyway. Only the CL can rescue it now.

Fair enough. FWIW even I don't see holding on to 2nd as the be all and end all, but as Arteta has exemplified, marginal gains are important, as are good and bad habits. As is winning mentality. The latter dictates that even if we have failed to win the league, we should be aiming to finish as high as possible.

I'm not so sure that the Palace performance was as much a 'pragmatic prioritisation of games' as much as a lack of focus on that one. You can say with justification that players are human, and psychologically the PSG tie was foremost in their minds. However Palace did not appear distracted by their own, sooner, semi, and I do not doubt that Arteta was unhappy with his team's apparent distraction/lack of focus.

Your no brainer point is valid - noone will care about dropping from 2nd if we win the CL, but like you, my heart says we won't. And this exemplifies my overlying point, really. One reason I have doubts about our ability to win the CL is that under Arteta we have failed (with the one FA Cup exception) to get over the line to win trophies, and often turned in disappointing performances when it really counts - at the sharp end. It's the 'fookin' estandards' isnt it, and dropping off 2nd place at the death doesn't really match Arteta's criteria.

It's like an athlete in the 100m final. You wouldn't expect the runner in second place to ease off just because (s)he is beaten to first. You would expect them to fight for silver, and take that into the next race. Small margins maybe but not without importance.

[Mac76]

Mac - my comments were not intended as a criticism of Arsenal's EPL season so much as a response to Letters about why I think retaining second place is important.

We have endured bad luck with injuries and decisions this season, but the simple fact is that even now we are 5 points clear in second, so I do not think these factors are relevant to my comments about retaining what we have - particularly as we are in a better place now with player fitness than we were at the end of January - when we were also 5 points clear.

There is no reason why we cannot secure 2nd place, and I don't think my comments re aspirations are misplaced. I dispute that a team like Arsenal should not aspire to compete on all fronts.

And I don't agree with your comments re confidence and momentum. The point about our CL performances is something of a red herring. It's a cup comp in which we have done well for sure, but I don't want to see a team that can only reach levels in 'big games', nor one that picks and chooses when to turn it on. Our season, and league title challenge has been blighted by too many draws, and too many points dropped from winning positions. Our progress in the CL does not change this. It is beyond doubt that winning is a habit, and confidence is drawn from knowing you can see games out, and pick up maximum points regularly. We all lamented our previous seasons when we dropped off from February. 2022/3 and 2023/4 saw us improve this bad habit. We all want to push on in the league from this season. Failing to secure a second place that we have retained for most of this season despite things going against us is not a great starting point.

There's every reason why we might not secure it, namely a thin squad, some not fully fit, and the nwed to prioritise a competition of huge prestige which we've never won before, a lot of people on here have completely unrealistic expectations given the season we've had

The reason i think second could slip is we have some very difficult games v Liverpool and Newcastle who have nothing else to play for.

Especially v Newcastle I'd want some key players left out of that, given how they get away with gratuitous violence on the pitch on a weekly basis

[KSE Comedy Club]

Late to this, but I have 4 reasons why finishing second is important.

1. We have been 'nailed on' in second place for a while - in a season where the traditional challengers have been pretty shocking. To lose this position having been well clear of the rest would represent a capitulation. This is never a good look or feel, whatever the surrounding circumstances.

2. A team with aspirations to win the league should treat every game as important and look to win it. The league was won a few weeks ago. This doesn't mean that we should not fight to secure the best finish possible - ie 2nd.

3. Similarly, a team with our aspirations wants to be able to compete on all fronts. Falling off an established position in the league because we are in the final stages of the CL indicates an inability to do this - which is counter to this objective.

4. Like I said in the post you were responding to, our team at its best is all about focus and control. This is not something that we should be looking to switch on and off, it should be a constant. Winning games; keeping leads; doing what is needed to get over the line is a habit. Failing to do so dents confidence and security. Our 'line' since 6 weeks ago has been second.

I've said that I don't think the Palace game will set the pattern for tomorrow night and next week. But we need (1) to address the drawing habit that has done for our title challenge this season, and (2) show that we have the resolve not to allow our leage position to fall away at the death.

excellent.

[Letters]

So why are Liverpool so far ahead? Why didn't they ease off and piss on the fans, stroll out the last few games and finish a point ahead?

And, right on cue, the minute Liverpool have the title wrapped up they lose the very next game.
They don’t even have any cup games to think about.
What a bunch of losers, amirite?

[Niall_Quinn]

And, right on cue, the minute Liverpool have the title wrapped up they lose the very next game.
They don’t even have any cup games to think about.
What a bunch of losers, amirite?

Maybe they'd still be in the CL if they had the attitude that every game counts, right up until the finish line.

But again - I'm trying to explain winning to a loser, which can't be done.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

And, right on cue, the minute Liverpool have the title wrapped up they lose the very next game.
They don’t even have any cup games to think about.
What a bunch of losers, amirite?

I don't get this. We hadn't "wrapped up" anything (still haven't) and started pissing on our fans way before the finish line....really don't get what message you are trying pass on.

[Letters]

I don't get this. We hadn't "wrapped up" anything (still haven't) and started pissing on our fans way before the finish line....really don't get what message you are trying pass on.

We hadn’t - still haven’t, embarrassingly - wrapped up CL qualification mathematically. But we were far enough ahead that it’s still pretty unlikely we won’t qualify despite the poor run. It’s getting closer than it should be, admittedly.
Point being I get why, given the above and that the title had long since stopped being realistic, and given the fact we were in a Champions League semifinal, a bit of loss of focus in the league.
This is not some crazy new thing. The sides NQ eulogises with his rose tinted glasses did it too. Multiple examples have been given.
All that said, it’s the run of poor form which now worries me. It’s less than ideal going in to the game on Wednesday. I am strangely optimistic though - in as much as I don’t think it’s as inevitable we are going out as some seem to think. Head said no, heart says you never know.

[Letters]

Maybe they'd still be in the CL if they had the attitude that every game counts, right up until the finish line.

In the post I was quoting before you were sucking their cocks and saying how they’d kept winning. Holy goalpost moving, Batman.

But again - I'm trying to explain winning to a loser.

Are you holding your fingers up in an L shape like a 10 year old?
Embarrassing.
I know you think you know me but you really don’t know the first thing about me or my life.

[Niall_Quinn]

In the post I was quoting before you were sucking their cocks and saying how they’d kept winning. Holy goalpost moving, Batman.



Are you holding your fingers up in an L shape like a 10 year old?
Embarrassing.
I know you think you know me but you really don’t know the first thing about me or my life.

Sorry dude, but back in the real world and beyond the projection you are using here to try and win internet points, like you always do. It's super simple. When a team plays well I say they played well. When they play shit I say they played shit. In your strange world, if I say they played well on Monday and then they play shit on Tuesday, I'm then obliged to say they played well.

I didn't see the Liverpool game today, and neither did you I suspect (but why would that stop you?) They may well have left everything on the pitch and it was just one of those days. But if they didn't leave everything on the pitch my argument holds just as much water as always. Silly little characters like you who say silly little things like 2nd isn't important wouldn't even understand a notion like that, not the sporting ethic that underpins it. In the same way you pose as a Christian to gain virtue, you are trying to do the same here to gain cheap and self indulgent feel-good moments for yourself and (dwindling, I have noticed) fan base. That's okay, I wouldn't expect anything more from you. But I hope, for the sake of the Liverpool fans, their team didn't piss in their faces today. And as for "sucking their cocks", you mean admitting they won the league at a stroll? Well I don't know about you, but I'm just going on the league table. Seems pretty fucking comprehensive to me. Perhaps I should have said they "squeaked" a real last minute heart-breaker?

Anyway, for somebody like you to talk about sucking cocks is really taking the biscuit, don't you think? I;d call you what you are, but you already know.

Oh and I know you and your kind very, very well - which is why you just posted up that bitch response.