When will Arteta be sacked by

[HCZ_Reborn]

So verbatim the comment you responded to was “is it going to be made better by a player playing championship football in his mid twenties” and feel free to check if you don’t believe me

And your argument to that was “you’re wrong again because Vardy was playing at fleetwood town in his mid twenties”

So as I keep saying, you respond to what you think I’m saying rather than what I’m saying. Because you want to be right and therefore you come up with a response before you even consider what I’m actually saying

Don’t believe me, you probably think I’m gaslighting you….look for yourself

Have I ever done that? Argued what I think someone is saying rather than what they’ve said. All the time….i have a need to be right, therefore I can smell it on other people a mile off

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I see it’s not just me, who says “I don’t have time to spend all day arguing” and then proceeds to write a short novella

even I was surprised when I hit the post button.

Just overwhelmed today with babysitting duties.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As for the faux psychology stuff, I don’t think I tried to psychoanalyse you….i just said I think you jump on anything I say before even reading it because I’ve said what you consider to be mean and unfair things about you (which whilst they might be mean, are to my mind in no way unfair).

Honestly you do it all the time even when I haven’t said anything to you or even anything that even conceivably relates to you.

I’ll be honest when you first tried to correct me on inconsequential things like spelling a players name wrong or putting the scoreline in a way that no one but a pedant would care about, id think to myself “is this guy for real, does he think this remotely matters?”. Now I saw you doing it to other people as well but still felt weird behaviour.

Two things are true at once, I think everything I’ve said about what kind of person I think you are is honest (I don’t know if you are that which I take you to be, but you come across that way) but it’s also said because it gets a rise out of you.

And so yeah I think it’s exactly why you behave in such a petty and frankly childish way with me

[HCZ_Reborn]

even I was surprised when I hit the post button.

Just overwhelmed today with babysitting duties.

I have a lot of regrets in my life but not having kids is not one of them. Of course I doubt I’d think that if I’d actually had kids. My brother like me was never a paternal person, but my nephew is his world.

But yeah keeping an eye on kids and getting that written, impressive feat

[IBK]

IBK, I want to keep this short as I don't have much free time on my hands today.

There will always be good and "solid" arguments for coming up second best, if we don't have/create them we lose our humanity and competition becomes an immoral, unhealthy and fatal concept, like it is in most of the Animal kingdom.

However, deep down we all know that winning and especially dominating requires a level of ruthlessness and conjuring that from the safety of "I tried my best with the hand I was dealt" is likely not going to get you there.

There were factors this season that hindered Arteta. He had no strikers, he had injuries. The first factor was called by every one in the press before the season started. The injuries is a hazard of the job that previously cost us his first proper title run. Next season there will still be some sort of adversarial situation he will need to get past. Its just the way things work.

As for Slot, every unbiased person will agree he started off this season on a weaker footing than Arteta or Pep, yet he prevailed. He had an unfamiliar ageing squad. He came from a different league. He had star players that shouldn't be commited as they had contracts that were ending. He had what everyone considered a vastly inferior team. There will always be adversarial issues one needs to get past, this what makes competition exciting to onlookers.

Also, no one is saying Arteta is a bad manager and hasn't achieved anything; what we are saying is he hasn't achieved what we want and what was expected at specific times; an example is the good fortune we were given with the implosion of Citeh earlier this season in the league. Another example is the good fortune of playing a CL semi final with a team we already beat 2-0.

Next season Citeh won't be this bad. Newcastle and Villa will probably keep improving. Chelsea or ManU could suddenly wake up. Injuries could come. The striker he signs could be a disappointment. Shit happens.

Look, there will always be reasons not to win, but at the end of the day, it's pretty simple, you likely didn't do enough or someone was better and more ruthless than you, which kind of still means you likely didn't do enough. One day you might just have to look in the mirror and recognise that you don't have that "umphh", that ruthlessness or the desire, that carries you through the finishing line, especially when 2nd best become a habit.

Ultimately, where we differ is you believe Arteta is the best person that can take advantage of "his' team and turn them to winners. What I am saying is I've seen little evidence that he has that "quality" that will allow him to do so. I am also saying their are other people who immediately can, as Slot has proven.

It's thin margins, you could be right, but you've (we've) been wrong for 6 seasons and counting.

Thing is, we are aligned on not wanting to finish second best. Of course not, and Arteta would be the first to say that this is not the aim with this team.

But as I keep trying to emphasise, context is everything.

Arteta inherited a shit show. There was no way that he was going to come in and achieve quick success. So we cannot hold our 2 8th places, and even his subsequent 5th placed finish against him. We led the league for much of the 2022/23 season but fell away at the end, finishing 2nd. We mostly addressed this in 23/4 but ended up losing the league to Citeh by just 2 points, on the final day. Arguably this was affected by our run in the CL - to the Quarters at Arteta's first time of asking. If this isn't clear evidence of progression (that you say there is little of), then I don't know what is.

So really we are down to this season. I am as disappointed as the next person by our failure to continue our upwards trajectory, and I blame Arteta and the club for not investing in our forward line last Summer. But this mis-step does not mean that Arteta should be regarded as incapable of correcting this and winning silverware next season. Yes, the competition will be tough as it almost always is - and Citeh in particular will strenghten. But we were 2 points away from toppling them last season when they were their usual imperious best. Does Arteta's record really prove that we can't do it? You acknowledge the adversity that we faced this season, but effectively dismiss this by saying that injuries are a hazard of the job. I don't think this is right. Our injuries - long term to 5 key players (Odegard clearly hasn't even recovered from his) - 3 of them season ending; at one stage being without Havertz; Jesus; Saka and Martinelli for a whole month is not a normal level of misfortune. You only have to look at how the mighty Citeh fared losing just 1 key player to put into context what Arteta has had to cope with. I'm afraid I can't buy this season's league finish as a proper judgment on our manager.

And whatever happens in Paris next week, only the most biased observer would not acknowledge both our progression in the CL under Arteta from not even being in the comp 2 years ago to now.

I'm afraid I could not disagree with you more re Slot. He was not on a weaker footing in reality. This so-called weaker footing on paper was because of the factors that you refer to - other than having a 'vastly inferior' team. Not only did these concerns not come to pass, but his ageing superstar, Salah - dragged them almost single handedly to the title - having arguably his best ever season. Even just looking at their attacking options, I think it's nonsense to say that Liverpool's squad was vastly inferior to ours. It was a very good squad put together over a number of years by Klopp, that clearly needed a fresh face and a little tweaking to shine. Plus they did not suffer the injuries to their key players that we did. Comparison to Slot would only be fair if Arteta had had Saka; Odegard and Havertz available all season, and it's far-fetched to me to suggest that Arteta would not have pushed them all the way. I am not diminishing Slot's achievement, but what has happened at Liverpool (a new manager winning a new league in his first season) is as rare as hens teeth and cannot be the realistic standard by which Arteta is judged.

My view is that Arteta must win something next year. If he fails to do so again - whether as a result of a failed Summer transfer window or otherwise - then we will need to reconsider his position. I make this point however on the basis that we cannot suffer a season so hit by injuries again.

[Mac76]

I think the lack of grace being shown to Liverpool is quite depressing

They won the league, which means they performed better than any other team this season - yes Citeh had a slump, (although from ridiculous heights which we've never seen before) and so did we, plus Chelsea etc are all over the place, but you can only beat who you play and they won at a canter

Yes Salah played very well but he doesn't score goals without a decent team to get him the ball and not concede too many at the other end, plus surely somewhere along the line you give Liverpool credit for keeping him, rather than selling for some daft sum to the Saudis? or credit them with buying Gakpo or, again, keeping Van Dyke? Or bringing through some promising younger players?

As for Slot, Salah god-mode or not, Klopp's not an easy act to follow but Slot very clearly adapted their play to suit their squad and it worked well, so well done to him and well done to Liverpool

[HCZ_Reborn]

So just saying, if it gone the other way and we’d won the league instead of them. I would not care about fans of other clubs being graceful about us, in fact I’d be actively suspicious of it….nothing worse than false magnanimity.

From a liverpool fan’s perspective, they’d be well within their rights to read my opinions (which are honest) and say “cry more”. Because it’s exactly what I’d do in their place

I fully believe everything I’ve said about Liverpool, and even if I didn’t….they don’t get a “well done, well played” from me, in fact I feel I do them more respect with my contempt. I want them to fail next season…that’s praise enough

[Letters]

I think the lack of grace being shown to Liverpool is quite depressing

They won the league, which means they performed better than any other team this season - yes Citeh had a slump, (although from ridiculous heights which we've never seen before) and so did we, plus Chelsea etc are all over the place, but you can only beat who you play and they won at a canter

Yes Salah played very well but he doesn't score goals without a decent team to get him the ball and not concede too many at the other end, plus surely somewhere along the line you give Liverpool credit for keeping him, rather than selling for some daft sum to the Saudis? or credit them with buying Gakpo or, again, keeping Van Dyke? Or bringing through some promising younger players?

As for Slot, Salah god-mode or not, Klopp's not an easy act to follow but Slot very clearly adapted their play to suit their squad and it worked well, so well done to him and well done to Liverpool

They obviously deserve some credit, but no-one pushed them this year.
Not their fault, you only have to be better than the next best side, but no-one really came close to putting any pressure on them. It would be interesting to know how they'd have coped had anyone really pushed them.
And Slot has obviously done well but he lucked out with the season Salah has had.
If Spurs win the Europa League ( ) then it will be awful, but they've not been sweeping aside the cream of Europe. I'd never heard of their opposition last night.
Back to Liverpool I believe there was a season they won the FA Cup and didn't play a PL side at any stage. Again, not their fault but it's fair to say in that scenario they got pretty lucky with their run.

I don't think Liverpool have been lucky - I mean, they've had a few things go for them but overall you don't win the title by luck. But they have been the best in a season where no-one else has been much good. In the same way that Spurs and Man Utd are fortunate that the bottom 3 are so awful that they're not looking over their shoulders right now.

In brief: fuck 'em.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t know if you remember a brash Middlesborough fan who had a column on BBC Sport called Derek “Robbo” Robson.

Used to record a short audio in the days before podcasts became a thing. And I wrote in to him after they’d knocked us out of the league cup semis in 2004, to say “oh well done, you deserve it…Hope you win the final”. And he read out my message and said “Well Mr such and such a person, that’s very gracious of you…that’s a very nice sentiment”.

And i thought, well grace and magnanimity are easy when you don’t care enough to be that bothered. It was the league cup, Wenger didn’t care about it given the teams put out (especially at Highbury) and I didn’t care either….it was the league I wanted and it was the league eventually I got.

Was I ever going to be as graceful to Chelsea for knocking us out of the champions league two months later, was I fuck?

[Mac76]

In brief: fuck 'em.

One thing I will say in terms of luck, the refs give Van Djik a lot of leeway, if that was one of our CBs there'd be a lot mroe cards shown/pels given for some of what he does...