When will Arteta be sacked by

[Mac76]

I suspect even without all the decisions we'd probably have just been painfully short of winning, but all I'm saying is, if those decisions had happened in such a concentrated way to any other team (except possibly spuds :D) I'd be calling it out and saying it was a justfied thing to mention

Different teams get treated differently and fans, managers and players need to start telling like it is or the whole game just gets worse

[HCZ_Reborn]

I suspect even without all the decisions we'd probably have just been painfully short of winning, but all I'm saying is, if those decisions had happened in such a concentrated way to any other team (except possibly spuds :D) I'd be calling it out and saying it was a justfied thing to mention

Different teams get treated differently and fans, managers and players need to start telling like it is or the whole game just gets worse

I don’t disagree with any of that

But equally I can see how that might piss off fans who feel like they are not getting the deserved recognition for winning the title

Now of course I’m not going to give them recognition anymore than I would City. Fuck them


But equally I don’t have any problem when they equally say of us and our fans….Fuck them


And as long as it doesn’t descend into violence or singing about genuine tragedy….its all fair game

[HCZ_Reborn]

I should take this time to commend our resident Liverpool fan who shows far more patience with my invectives against Liverpool than I would if the roles were reversed.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I should take this time to commend our resident Liverpool fan who shows far more patience with my invectives against Liverpool than I would if the roles were reversed.

As it happens, I agree wholeheartedly with your summary a couple of posts up; so long as it doesn't cross a [I'd say for 99% of people a fairly obvious] line then say and do what you like. I couldn't care less.

[IBK]

Feeling a bit philosophical today, so I wanted to make a point about how when we criticise football managers for their decisions/results, too many football fans ignore the fine margins and sheer randomness that makes football as popular as it is.

This is a reflection of a general mindset in today's 'Western' world, that (unlike past or other cultures) diminishes the effect of sheer chance (some might call it fate), and believes that everything is and should be within our control.

So when looking at the obvious mistakes that Areteta has made - we judge him from a perspective of perfection - if players had been used less, then injuries would not have occured. If a striker signing had been made in January, then we would have won the league. If we had been better prepared in the first tie against PSG, we would not have conceded the first goal etc. All of these criticisms are justified - or at least are a valid perspective on one level. But IMHO for a balanced view we have to accept that sometimes luck doesn't go our way, and you cannot eliminate this factor. The manager's job is to try to mitigate against variable factors. A big squad offers protection against injuries. Coaching and preparation gives the best chance of beating the opposition. A system of playing can increase the chance of scoring, or preventing goals. But none of these are guarantees of success.

Take our injuries this season. We can look at over use of players, but I have posted the EPL most minutes of players and we do not feature particularly highly in these. The reality is that there is too much football and unrealistic demands on top players full stop. I don't think that the sheer extent of our injuries can be blamed solely on Arteta, or predictable to put it another way. This season has surely been an outlier for us in this regard, just as last season saw far more luck go our way - like it did for Liverpool this season. Neither can the referreing decisions that almost certainly cost us points (to be clear my view is that unltimately poor decisions are something that we have to accept - I don't want to use this as an excuse, simply an example of something that to a large degree is impossible to control). It sounds moany to point out that we went out of the CL semi to a goal that deflected off Saliba and another one went in off the post (luck rather than skill or planning in those moments) - but again these are factors that on another day would not have gone PSG's way.

I guess what I am saying is that I wish there was less absolutism when it comes to criticising our manager, and that our valid criticisms and the conclusions that follow these were not so categorical.