I don't need to. You told me yourself:Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Everything you say is true
You obviously just forgot to add the bit where you definitely thought they weren't capable of better than 2 points in the last 4 games because 84 points was their ceiling and it wasn't because they weren't bothering, having already wrapped up the title.
Isn’t that largely taken out of context, the context being that Mac was saying we should be giving this Liverpool side more credit for their achievements and I was all like “fuck that”. And you appeared to agree with that sentiment?.I don't need to. You told me yourself:
You obviously just forgot to add the bit where you definitely thought they weren't capable of better than 2 points in the last 4 games because 84 points was their ceiling and it wasn't because they weren't bothering, having already wrapped up the title.
The fact is the title was over so I didn’t give any thought to those games because they were dead rubbers
But I’m sorry, I do think 84 points accurately reflects their ability…they got 82 points the previous season and I don’t think they’d have beaten us or Chelsea or to be honest Brighton even if they needed to.
Chelsea (A), Arsenal (H), Brighton (A), Palace (H) Are you honestly saying these are gimme fixtures. To get to ninety points they would have to at minimum won at least two of those games which actually was probably one of the hardest cluster of fixtures they’d faced all season
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 05-08-2025 at 07:59 AM.
Finally, Sky is reporting some good news after days of absolutely nothing happening:
1. Stuttgart are in talks with us regarding Viera (hopefully that means at least €20m)
2. Rodrygo staying at Real Madrid...pretty happy with that as I'm not interested in any more Brazilian attackers that struggle at big clubs.
More fool Stuttgart then
I shouldn’t write off the season based on three pre season friendlies but I’m hoping the Emirates cup matches show something different as we really don’t look ready for the season. Even against Newcastle two of the three goals was fortuitous own goal and a pel that probably wouldn’t be given in the premier league.
The board from their own perspective have bet the house on Arteta, and it could massively blow up in their faces.
https://www.skysports.com/football/n...ssault-charges
Evidently the conditional part of his conditional bail doesn’t include joining a football club in a whole other country
Sky is reporting Man U have bid £73m for Sesko, clearly they are now involved in a bidding war with Newcastle which is something similar we would have gotten involved in if we had kept dithering on Gyokeores and both the player and his agent hadn't made all those sacrifices.
Its been proven time and time again that its best to get your transfer business done early as there is little value waiting late like it's some sort of January Christmas sale market.
Sesko remains the option id have gone for and therefore I hope that neither United or Newcastle manage to get their hands on him (my preference would be for Newcastle to keep Isak)
That kind of money does however represent a big risk especially for United who threw a lot of money at Hojlund (who I still think could be a decent player for a team with a decent midfield)
Not really. This is the relevant thread - it's the thread for the set of fixtures which included the Liverpool vs Spurs game where they wrapped up the title.
https://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/s...ead.php?t=5532
You went on some rant apropos nothing which is best summed up by the two words "fuck Liverpool".
Then Mac said your ire would be better aimed at various referees - he didn't say anything about giving Liverpool credit (maybe he did elsewhere, but we are talking about the context of your post).
Then I posted the above and that was your response.
Well exactly. And as you noted several times in the threads around those last few games, that end of season nothing to play for feeling affects performances and results.The fact is the title was over so I didn’t give any thought to those games because they were dead rubbers
Now you're claiming it didn't affect the results - but when I said that Liverpool "could get get around 90 points" you just agreed with me. You didn't make any predictions about those last games.
Now you're retrospectively claiming you never thought they'd get more than 2 points from those 4 games. If you did think that then you didn't articulate that at the time. What you did articulate was that Liverpool had gone to the beach, as did others.
OK. Then I disagree for the reasons given multiple times.But I’m sorry, I do think 84 points accurately reflects their ability
Ultimately it's a slightly pointless debate (one could argue that this place is mostly for those). We obviously can't re-run the season where Liverpool needed more from those last 4 games games to see how they'd fare. So ultimately we can't know who is right. But given that that run of 4 games was a massive outlier in terms of their results last season AND they'd wrapped up the title before those 4 games AND we all acknowledge that end of season where there's nothing to play for often throw up unusual results, it just seems unlikely to me. And if you did think that all along then you gave no indication of it at the time. No, they're not gimme fixtures, but they'd already beaten Chelsea, Brighton and Palace previously in the season.
Again, I do not think that Liverpool side was one of the great Premier League sides. We are aligned on that. But they did what they needed to do last season. Even if they blundered their way through some games - any title winning side does that, it's part of what propels a side to be champions. The fact they won it so easily does say a lot more about our and City's failings than Liverpool sweeping all before them. But I'm pretty confident that had they needed more from those last 4 games to clinch the title then they'd have got it. And I'd suggest your opinion about this is somewhat clouded by your own admitted bitterness about them.
I am incredibly bitter about Liverpool’s title, I’ve made a point of saying that no matter what Arteta wins from here on out I cannot and will not forgive last season, that title was our title and his bungling and squad mismanagement gave it away.
But what you fail to appreciate is that if this was equivalent to the Klopp side of 2020 that Bitterness would not exist, because I wouldn’t make any assumption that this was our title. It would have been well it would have been good to be competitive but this Liverpool side were relentless anyway.
It’s because I don’t regard this Liverpool team highly that I’m bitter about them winning the title, not that I’m bitter about them winning the title therefore I won’t acknowledge them.
The fact is by the time Liverpool’s form dropped in mid March they’d played mainly all their tough games. The fact is though they were limping along but being helped by us (we drew at Everton the day before they lost to Fulham, we drew at home to Brentford and Palace which meant they only needed a draw to win the title at home to Spurs).
So just imagine a scenario where they needed a win against Chelsea the fixture after, Chelsea who hadn’t lost at home to December…against a Liverpool team that was lagging (maybe you’d put your money on it but I wouldn’t)
At home to us, they had a two goal lead….can you not imagine a scenario where they might have panicked and given up the two goals and maybe even panicked further and ended up losing?
Brighton and Palace, two sides that have proved to be banana skins for Liverpool.
Now I tell you what I’ll concede one thing, maybe if the form they were in up to March was there maybe they’d have got more points…but they weren’t in that form. They made heavy weather of Southampton, Leicester, Everton and West Ham…they lost to PSG, Newcastle and Fulham…this was clearly the poorest form they’d been in all season.
And I think had we or city been in contention, it would have put serious doubt in their mind (that we never put pressure on them, meant their mettle was never tested)
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 05-08-2025 at 04:05 PM.
It's a little extreme to ever say that it's "our" title, but it's certainly true that with the previous 2 seasons we were - or should have been - best placed to take advantage of City's drop off. The fact we didn't sign a striker last summer was awful mismanagement. I wouldn't go all "may God forgive you, I never shall" as that seems a little histrionic, but it was certainly massive incompetence which cost us the chance of a first title in a generation. How much of that incompetence was Arteta's I don't know - he expressed some frustration at our transfer dealings, I think that was in January, which implies he's not entirely culpable.
I'm not asking you to acknowledge them. I don't acknowledge them - I don't think it was a great side. It's the fact that they had no real competition and the standard of the PL generally was so poor which handed them the title. Us and City were poor by the standards we'd set. Utd and Spurs were hilariously inept. It was probably the worst bottom 3 in PL history.The title race, such as it was, was over by the end of February. Liverpool were the best of a bad bunch.It’s because I don’t regard this Liverpool team highly that I’m bitter about them winning the title, not that I’m bitter about them winning the title therefore I won’t acknowledge them
But at the time you said - this was before the Liverpool vs Spurs game, "if it's not today then it'll be after the next match.". So at the time you acknowledged they'd win it at some point.So just imagine a scenario where they needed a win against Chelsea the fixture after, Chelsea who hadn’t lost at home to December…against a Liverpool team that was lagging (maybe you’d put your money on it but I wouldn’t)
I don't see any sense in micro-analysing each of their last 4 games. It's just a fact that once they won the title they switched off, as is very common for sides who clinch the title. NQ's the only one who used to pretend that winning sides don't do that. They very much do and always have. So it seems extremely implausible that the fact they'd wrapped up the title so early didn't affect any of their subsequent results.
Now this is a more plausible. You said above they'd have crumbled had they been put under pressure. It's another unprovable and unfalsifiable assertion, but it's certainly true that sides are more likely to wobble when teams are breathing down their neck. Unfortunately we were never close enough to do that so I guess we'll never know. But it's an argument I can get on board with.And I think had we or city been in contention, it would have put serious doubt in their mind (that we never put pressure on them, meant their mettle was never tested)
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