When will Arteta be sacked by

[KSE Comedy Club]

A few more results like this and the fanbase will be vocal.

You cannot build a billion pound squad and play like Stoke.

[Chippy]

A few more results like this and the fanbase will be vocal.

You cannot build a billion pound squad and play like Stoke.

Exactly this!

We have been playing poor for ages. A good manager would be able to make this side play more attractive football.
His excuses are wearing thin.

[IBK]

I've just been listening to the Times football podcast, and while I don't always agree with what they say (Alyson Rudd can be an annoyingly partisan Liverpool fangirl), I thought they analysed Sunday's game very well, and it has refined my view on our manager.

There were 2 telling points made. The first is that while both teams were conservative for much of the match, Liverpool's goal came from Van Dijk taking a risky 40 yard pass through midfield to Jones, who then drew the foul from Zubi. Szoboszlai then risked a free kick from 32 yards out to score the winner. Letters challenged my observation that champions find a way to win when not playing well by pointing to our result against Manure, but the truth (as well as my response that Liverpool consistently do this and we do not), is that their ability to do so is not an accident. Liverpool take risks in attack that bear fruit. We are risk averse. Arteta wants to play percentage football. It works to a degree (we wouldn't have 3 second places if it didn't). But my feeling is that if a team that has the talent to win things wants to do so, it needs to make it happen. This means having the bravery to be the match winner - and taking the risks that are needed to do so.

We do not try that 40 yard pass in the game, because this team is obsessed with possession and control. We know that when Rice took his free kick against RM that was against team instructions - which were to play for the more conservative option of a set piece. This is percentage football. The problem is that where the teams at the top are so equally matched, percentage football leaves us vulnerable to a moment of magic from the other team that does not follow the script...and when you think about it this happens very regularly to us. Football is, ultimately not down to pure stats.

The other point made was that when you looked at our bench on Sunday, it ws brimming with attacking talent. Odegaard, Nwaneri, Dowman, Eze, Trossard. This is a stark departure from last season. Fair enough - use a defensive line up for the first half. But this showed a Liverpool far from their fluid best, so why wasn't it changed up sooner? Arteta's post game comments that we set out to win the game are worrying. Because if he believes this, he thinks that our starting 11 was one that could score the goals needed to win - and therefore a belief that a stolid defensive set up will do more than preserve a statemate against a team of Liverpool's quality. I'm far from a footballing expert, but my point above applies. To win a league you need to take the game to the opposition, not simply try to stop them scoring. If you do - as happened to us on Sunday and happened so many times last season - you leave yourself vulnerable to conceding an unexpected goal (our defence is good but not invulnerable), and turning this around takes a change of tactics/personnel and mindset - on top of having to face an opposition that can now focus on defence. In other words you have created a mountain to climb.

I'm struggling to see how - based on the last 12 months - Arteta is going to step outside the rigid mental and tactical risk-averse approach that has now become hard baked into his team.

[IBK]

A couple of further points that make my head swim a bit.

While we are (and should be) delighted with our Summer business, unless we change up our approach to games by using our attacking options properly, it might be said that this business is simply more playing percentages. Clearly Arteta has seen injuries as the reason we fell short last season. So we have recruited replacements in almost every position. But if this is seen as trying to manage risk rather than a committment to more attacking football then the Summer suddenly seems less exciting.

There is also a real contradiction in our team's approach to risk. We do take risks playing out from the back - and this was on display against Liverpool. But get the ball near the half way round and the situation reverses. So even the risks we do take tend to be for no real purpose.

[Marc Overmars]

Risk is everything, not just in football but successful people in all walks of life take chances to achieve what they want.

We just aren’t going to win the league playing the way we do. I’ve got no issue at all with being a defensive team but what I cannot accept is playing the percentages and not being imaginative and brave enough to show some initiative during games that are deadlocked.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I've just been listening to the Times football podcast, and while I don't always agree with what they say (Alyson Rudd can be an annoyingly partisan Liverpool fangirl), I thought they analysed Sunday's game very well, and it has refined my view on our manager.

There were 2 telling points made. The first is that while both teams were conservative for much of the match, Liverpool's goal came from Van Dijk taking a risky 40 yard pass through midfield to Jones, who then drew the foul from Zubi. Szoboszlai then risked a free kick from 32 yards out to score the winner. Letters challenged my observation that champions find a way to win when not playing well by pointing to our result against Manure, but the truth (as well as my response that Liverpool consistently do this and we do not), is that their ability to do so is not an accident. Liverpool take risks in attack that bear fruit. We are risk averse. Arteta wants to play percentage football. It works to a degree (we wouldn't have 3 second places if it didn't). But my feeling is that if a team that has the talent to win things wants to do so, it needs to make it happen. This means having the bravery to be the match winner - and taking the risks that are needed to do so.

We do not try that 40 yard pass in the game, because this team is obsessed with possession and control. We know that when Rice took his free kick against RM that was against team instructions - which were to play for the more conservative option of a set piece. This is percentage football. The problem is that where the teams at the top are so equally matched, percentage football leaves us vulnerable to a moment of magic from the other team that does not follow the script...and when you think about it this happens very regularly to us. Football is, ultimately not down to pure stats.

The other point made was that when you looked at our bench on Sunday, it ws brimming with attacking talent. Odegaard, Nwaneri, Dowman, Eze, Trossard. This is a stark departure from last season. Fair enough - use a defensive line up for the first half. But this showed a Liverpool far from their fluid best, so why wasn't it changed up sooner? Arteta's post game comments that we set out to win the game are worrying. Because if he believes this, he thinks that our starting 11 was one that could score the goals needed to win - and therefore a belief that a stolid defensive set up will do more than preserve a statemate against a team of Liverpool's quality. I'm far from a footballing expert, but my point above applies. To win a league you need to take the game to the opposition, not simply try to stop them scoring. If you do - as happened to us on Sunday and happened so many times last season - you leave yourself vulnerable to conceding an unexpected goal (our defence is good but not invulnerable), and turning this around takes a change of tactics/personnel and mindset - on top of having to face an opposition that can now focus on defence. In other words you have created a mountain to climb.

I'm struggling to see how - based on the last 12 months - Arteta is going to step outside the rigid mental and tactical risk-averse approach that has now become hard baked into his team.

Well put.

I posted plenty of times last season that I did not like how our style of football had changed, I noticed it in the first 4 games - it was terrible to watch.
Up until the 23/24 season Arteta was all about the quick passing and fluid attacking football - one of the reasons the mass clear out happened as he always said those players didn't want to work hard.
Ultimately though, we fell foul of being too 'gung ho' and it cost us the league.

Now I understand him wanting to make the defence stronger and more robust, defending as a team etc, but he has taken us completely in the opposite direction.
We are now so strictly coached and over managed that the players seem devoid of any creative attacking ideas.

Some one who called in to talksport who went to the game, said he was sat fairly near Arteta. At one point Madueke started making a run up the wing and he heard Arteta shouting at him to slow down and signaled for him to pass the ball back towards the midfield.

That is truly damning and completely worrying to me.

He must adapt his system to be a mixture of his two half of tenure with us, defensive when needed but more open, fluid and direct in attack. Stop this playing for set pieces nonsense and start trying to create and score goals.

Gyokores is being directly stifled by this system currently, he has received 0 service now in 3 games - that is almost sabotage on Arteta's part, if he won't instruct his players to play to Goku's strengths.

The old adage comes to mind: To be the best, you have to beat the best.
Well - so far he has failed, and as long as he does we won't be winning any silverware.

[Chippy]

Well put.

I posted plenty of times last season that I did not like how our style of football had changed, I noticed it in the first 4 games - it was terrible to watch.
Up until the 23/24 season Arteta was all about the quick passing and fluid attacking football - one of the reasons the mass clear out happened as he always said those players didn't want to work hard.
Ultimately though, we fell foul of being too 'gung ho' and it cost us the league.

Now I understand him wanting to make the defense stronger and more robust, defending as a team etc, but he has taken us completely in the opposite direction.
We are now so strictly coached and over managed that the players seem devoid of any creative attacking ideas.

Some one who called in to talksport who went to the game, said he was sat fairly near Arteta. At one point Madueke started making a run up the wing and he heard Arteta shouting at him to slow down and signaled for him to pass the ball back towards the midfield.

That is truly damning and completely worrying to me.

He must adapt his system to be a mixture of his two half of tenure with us, defensive when needed but more open, fluid and direct in attack. Stop this playing for set pieces nonsense and start trying to create and score goals.

Gyokores is being directly stifled by this system currently, he has received 0 service now in 3 games - that is almost sabotage on Arteta's part, if he won't instruct his players to play to Goku's strengths.

The old adage comes to mind: To be the best, you have to beat the best.
Well - so far he has failed, and as long as he does we won't be winning any silverware.

Exactly this. Nothing to add from me.

[Mac76]

Gyokores is being directly stifled by this system currently, he has received 0 service now in 3 games - that is almost sabotage on Arteta's part, if he won't instruct his players to play to Goku's strengths.

I said in the summer that I didn't rule out that Arteta was trying to sabotage signing Gyok in the first place by insisting on such a low price for him, also the delay in signing meant he wasn't up to speed at the start of the season - I wouldn't be a bit surprised if what you say here is also true, even if at a bit of a subliminal level

the bit you wrote about Madueke is also really damning but in complete chracter, I've seen him do it before, he will stifle Noni as he has stifled every other attacking player in the squad one way or another

[KSE Comedy Club]

I said in the summer that I didn't rule out that Arteta was trying to sabotage signing Gyok in the first place by insisting on such a low price for him, also the delay in signing meant he wasn't up to speed at the start of the season - I wouldn't be a bit surprised if what you say here is also true, even if at a bit of a subliminal level

the bit you wrote about Madueke is also really damning but in complete chracter, I've seen him do it before, he will stifle Noni as he has stifled every other attacking player in the squad one way or another

I know and it concerns me 'biggly'

If he genuinely is doing these things to try and prove himself right, then he has no business being at the club anymore.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It really doesn’t need to be complicated or conspiratorial.

I said before we bought him that Gyokeres doesn’t fit into our style of play, all this arrant nonsense that Arteta tried to sabotage negotiations which he wouldn’t have had any part in is silly.

I favoured Sesko because I thought he suited our style of play better and I thought Arteta wouldn’t change that style.

The transfer strategy with Gyokeres is the same transfer strategy we do with a lot of clubs, where we agree terms with the player and use the fact that the player wants to join us to leverage the club. I don’t think it’s a particularly good strategy (it certainly didn’t work with Mudryk)

We went after Gyokeres because we tried the same strategy with Sesko and it failed, because Sesko wasn’t going to rock the boat to join us.

My feeling with Gyokeres as I expressed the other day would be to play him wide left, you see so many of the goals he scored for Sporting where he cuts in from the left (and surprise, surprise it was how he scored his debut goal) and play Eze as a false number 9.

No Gyokeres isn’t a true wide player but his tendency to drift left and come in might as well be utilised especially if Martinelli is a dud…