Summer Transfers 2025 Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

For me this has to be a combination of his big wages (£180K pw), and the manager's continued faith in him. For me, Martinelli encapsulates some of our issues with transfer business. We seem to be overly loyal to some players and write off others too quickly. The former we probably overpay, and seem almost sentimental in not cashing in when they have real value. The latter we bench and watch their value plummet when it is obvious they have fallen out of favour.


I think that for too long, Martinelli has been picked more because of his tracking back than his proficiency in his principal role. It's a real shame because 2/3 years ago he was considered to have Saka potential. But the fact we have been so lacking down the left (chopping and changing at LB and not finding an effective option at left mid), and what appears to be a lack of footballing intelligence (Martinelli seems to be a player who works on instinct who wilts when he thinks too much) seems to have destroyed his confidence and seen his performances plummet. Since the beginning of 2024 it has seemed obvious that he does not take the right decisions when near to goal, and is not a finisher. This should have been noted by the club, and an exit strategy (including a replacement) finessed. Instead, we are now left with a player who could almost be considered deadwood (given the arrivals of Madueke and Eze and the Trossard renewal), taking up a squad place and being paid wages that are disproportionate to his value.


Can he be an impact sub? Could his decline be addressed by trying him up front? Our problem now I feel is that our manager is not flexible enough to try something different that might maintain his value.

What I don't really get about the Martinelli situation is that it's been 6 transfer windows since Arteta identified that he needed an upgrade in Martinelli's position ( Jan 2023, our record bid for Mudryk) and almost 3 years later, we're still stuck with the player, and lack anything that looks as effective as he was in his prime.

Yes, the main issue has been the sentimental options Arteta continues to pursue from his homeland's league ( Nico, Rodrygo), but surely if you've identified that you can do better than someone, have adequate cover which really isn't much of a downgrade to his current performances (Trossard and Nelson) , and you are convinced he will not be in your longterm plan....doesn't it make sense to try and make as much money as you can from this declining asset before it becomes pretty much worthless?

Martinelli has been on this steady decline for years, but what annoys me is Arteta was one of the first people to spot his limitations. Yet Arteta has persisted and persisted in doing the same thing (tactically) till he's become easily one of the most ineffectual players on show in the EPL every week. Youtube is replete with tactical analysis teaching young kids how not to play on the wing with the star of the clips being Martinelli, and you can't even accuse them of anti Arsenal bias when a legend like Henry is the one highlighting!!

It's like Arteta gets a weird kick out of draining value out of assets and ensuring we make these kind of inexplicable losses (and yes I know we only bought him for 6m or so ages ago, but would it kill us to make a fantastic profit on a player for once since the heydays of premium AW??).

[IBK]

What I don't really get about the Martinelli situation is that it's been 6 transfer windows since Arteta identified that he needed an upgrade in Martinelli's position ( Jan 2023, our record bid for Mudryk) and almost 3 years later, we're still stuck with the player, and lack anything that looks as effective as he was in his prime.

Yes, the main issue has been the sentimental options Arteta continues to pursue from his homeland's league ( Nico, Rodrygo), but surely if you've identified that you can do better than someone, have adequate cover which really isn't much of a downgrade to his current performances (Trossard and Nelson) , and you are convinced he will not be in your longterm plan....doesn't it make sense to try and make as much money as you can from this declining asset before it becomes pretty much worthless?

Martinelli has been on this steady decline for years, but what annoys me is Arteta was one of the first people to spot his limitations. Yet Arteta has persisted and persisted in doing the same thing (tactically) till he's become easily one of the most ineffectual players on show in the EPL every week. Youtube is replete with tactical analysis teaching young kids how not to play on the wing with the star of the clips being Martinelli, and you can't even accuse them of anti Arsenal bias when a legend like Henry is the one highlighting!!

It's like Arteta gets a weird kick of draining value out of assets and ensuring we make these kind of inexplicable losses (and yes I know we only bought him for 6m or so ages ago, but would it kill us to make a fantastic profit on a player for once since the heydays of premium AW??).

Good points. I'd forgotten the obvious thinking behind the Mudryk bid. And you're right to ask why - if the manager recognised we needed an upgrade on Martinelli - we didn't try to achieve this at least in the Summer of last year. this is what Liverpool would have done - and their unsentimentality in making transfers (out as well as in) is what has seen them get top value for their talent. We do the opposite. Some may say that over past years putting faith in our youngsters to come good is admirable. But look closer under the bonnet and you will see that MLS and Nwaneri were given the opportunity because we had no other options...and now both players find themselves down the pecking order because we have gone and recruited more senior, experienced talent anyway.

We have been reluctant to put the club before sentimental attachment to popular players when it comes to transfers. Yet Arteta is ruthless with other players who are simply frozen out. Both of these contradictary policies have hurt us in the transfer market time and time again.

[Marc Overmars]

Martinelli, once a livewire of a forward, now pretty much masquerades as a defender because that’s what the coach wants from him. I don’t think he’s a bad player at all but Arteta has taken that vibrancy away and replaced it with this bland headless chicken with no personality on the pitch.

[IBK]

Martinelli, once a livewire of a forward, now pretty much masquerades as a defender because that’s what the coach wants from him. I don’t think he’s a bad player at all but Arteta has taken that vibrancy away and replaced it with this bland headless chicken with no personality on the pitch.

Yes - I see your point to a degree, but this doesn't explain why when he does get forward this is with his head down and his final decision is almost always wrong these days. I think the problem is more that Martinelli is an instinct than a system player. This celebral approach to the game favours a Saka - who is (surprisingly perhaps) more of a good (and tactically astute) decision maker than a true bang bang player - a Havertz or a Zubimendi, than it does Martinelli or (dare I say) Gyokores. I think that Eze and Man Dem (Noni) probably have the smarts to use their flair within a rigid system. But I think Martinelli seesm to be burdened with trying to over think his role.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Maybe I’m protective of Martinelli but I don’t think Mudryk was identified as an upgrade on Martinelli, he was identified to add depth to our attacking options much in the same way Trossard was. Martinelli was producing the best football of his career for us at the time so to suggest Arteta was looking for an upgrade is sheer revisionism to fit a narrative.

Martinelli has clearly regressed since then and cannot simply be protected, but I do think a lot of it comes down to his isolation because we don’t employ a natural full back on the left to provide an overlap, and add to that we have Odegaard drift right to accommodate this Goldilocks no8 position that Arteta wants to fill with anyone but a number 8.

Martinelli is not Saka, but a lot of the so called upgrades we have had touted would find themselves in the same position as Martinelli and to a degree I include Eze in that equation, I think he would be far better deployed in the centre to break lines

And if anything if we are going to drop Martinelli, we might be better off playing Gyokeres wide left and play Eze as a deep lying forward

[Marc Overmars]

Yes - I see your point to a degree, but this doesn't explain why when he does get forward this is with his head down and his final decision is almost always wrong these days. I think the problem is more that Martinelli is an instinct than a system player. This celebral approach to the game favours a Saka - who is (surprisingly perhaps) more of a good (and tactically astute) decision maker than a true bang bang player - a Havertz or a Zubimendi, than it does Martinelli or (dare I say) Gyokores. I think that Eze and Man Dem (Noni) probably have the smarts to use their flair within a rigid system. But I think Martinelli seesm to be burdened with trying to over think his role.

I agree Martinelli was always about instinct and over time his confidence seems to have drained. With players like this it’s really just best to hone in on the things they’re good at rather than mould them into something they’re not. Direct running on the outside rather than predictable cutting inside and recycling the ball, taking minimal touches before getting shots away, stretching centre backs with his runs into the box, that’s what made him a hit with us originally.

Walcott is an example of a similar player with legs quicker than his brain who made the best of his limitations because Wenger never asked him to do anything else.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Yes - I see your point to a degree, but this doesn't explain why when he does get forward this is with his head down and his final decision is almost always wrong these days. I think the problem is more that Martinelli is an instinct than a system player. This celebral approach to the game favours a Saka - who is (surprisingly perhaps) more of a good (and tactically astute) decision maker than a true bang bang player - a Havertz or a Zubimendi, than it does Martinelli or (dare I say) Gyokores. I think that Eze and Man Dem (Noni) probably have the smarts to use their flair within a rigid system. But I think Martinelli seesm to be burdened with trying to over think his role.

I definitely agree with this.

I've always felt one of the things that Arteta has gotten right is prioritising intelligence over flair, as that was a big paradigm shift compared to latter Wenger and Emery teams. In fact I believe this shift is the cornerstone of his "success" (or whatever you want to call it).

Anyway, I've always felt Martinelli doesn't strike me as the kind of player that could flourish under Arteta, because typically, like most Brazilian attackers, they prefer relying on flair and doing the unexpected.

However, I must say, IMO, another important part of playing under Arteta and actually being successful, is knowing when to ignore him....and again this has to do with the intellect and confidence of a player.

In another post you made, you pointed out how you were pretty sure Rice ignored instructions by taking the Real Madrid freekicks directly rather than doing the usual set piece routine. I 100% agree with this.

In fact I've always felt one of the reasons why Saka is so effective, is he doesn't follow the script with his attacks, you always see Odegaard or someone else expecting him to make the one millionth pass or cutback but he goes ahead and does what he thinks is right at the moment.

This is the same kind of confidence Trossard use to carry on with when he was so effective.

And this takes me to the closest person we can compare to Martinelli, Gabriel Jesus.

Again like the typical Brazilian player, he is heavily reliant on flair and instinct, and is always doing the unusal. However, despite Arteta's best effort, he's never managed to rein in Jesus exuberance and make him play to a template....if he feels like dribbling 4 before taking the shot, Jesus will dribble 4 and damn the consequences.

I saw somewhere (likely on Youtube), where they asked the kids (MLS and Nwanerri) to rate the most skillful player we've got in the team. I actually thought they were going to say Odegaard, only for them to both be effusive about Jesus and the magic he does in training...I mean you could see the stars in their eyes when they were describing it.

Though Jesus is largely a bit time player because he gets injured over and over again and we insist on playing him as an old school no9 (which he has told us over and over again he isn't) he still has far more cred than Martinelli and no one is making memes of him.

In fact, I know Arteta respects him, and in general respects players that surprise him with what they do.

IMO both Martinelli and Odegaard are being hampered by the fact that they don't trust their inherent ability and they let Arteta and the system get too much in their head. Its less obvious with Odegaard because he's supremely gifted, but Martinelli has become a walking robot that every defender can predict, seeing as he keeps following the script to make that aimless dash to the line.

The kid has a future under a manager that will let him be free.

Either that or he discovers (rather belatedly, I must say) that Arteta has been bullshitting him all along( i.e. the system doesn't have all the answers); really he should just trust his natural instinct and ensure their is an end product with whatever he chooses to do, like he use to when he was younger and apparently more "naive".

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.theguardian.com/football...wsstory.sport5

Basically Martinelli needs a coach like Aragones, but hopefully without the racism

[Mac76]

https://www.theguardian.com/football...wsstory.sport5

Basically Martinelli needs a coach like Aragones, but hopefully without the racism

Well seriously it has to be coaching, Arteta's seen how he plays for years, to not sit him down and say 'lift your head up and look around you' until he does is criminal negligence - isn't that what he's paid £8m a year for?

[Letters]

Well seriously it has to be coaching, Arteta's seen how he plays for years, to not sit him down and say 'lift your head up and look around you' until he does is criminal negligence - isn't that what he's paid £8m a year for?

Do you really need to tell a top level player that though?
That's just basic stuff.