Ryan Giggs and Scholes were not much of a vocal presence in the Utd side either, yet SAF attributes having them around as one of the main reasons for his success towards the end of his career. Experienced folks do not always need to be a Vieira or Keane, they can be influential in many other ways. We have made the mistake of disposing off of experienced players too early before and I hope we do not start doing the same crap all over again.