Le Coq

[Fist of Lehmann]

Nah, not really - not for me anyway.

Aye me either.

Watched him in 14/15 pre-season and he was poor, abject even. Convinced that was the end of him, surprised we kept him on loan instead of binning him.

But since then his rise has been remarkable, and he has to take a lot of the credit for that. From where he was to where he is now, that doesn't just happen, he's worked his nuts off in training to achieve a level adequate for Arsenal.

[I am invisible]

Good posts both. But I think IAI you forget what a cottage industry our loan players seem to be these days. It's as much of a percentages game as anything else, and there's a huge element of luck (usually other players' injuries) that gives players a chance with us. So well done Coq for siezing it with both hands!

Oh absolutely. I'm not arguing that the way the chance came about, and the way Coq took it, weren't fortunate - just saying that I don't think the decision to recall him was totally blind and desperate. We've had plenty of injury crises before that have taken out whole areas of the side, but we very rarely, if ever, recall a player from a loan to fix the problem? I doubt anyone could have predicted quite how good he's gone on to be, but I do think there must have been some element of faith in him on the part of the management team, otherwise we wouldn't have bothered...

[I am invisible]

Our players in general don't seem to have great loan spells. Gibbs, Bellerin, Coquelin all underwhelmed but fitted in perfectly here when they were given a chance. Sometimes it's being in the wrong place at the wrong time or being played in different positions, which seems to apply especially for Coq. But it can also be that super-talented players like Bellerin shine more with players of similar quality.

The Coquelin and Bellerin thing also makes me wonder why certain obviously gifted youngsters aren't just given more of a chance. Rather than turning to under-performing senior players and squaddies during bad spells, sometimes young players can give the team a lift, much like new signings often do. Gnabry is barely getting a kick a West Brom, but, two seasons ago, he fit in perfectly and played really well before the injury set him back. With Welbeck injured, it would be good to see what Iwobi can do in case we hit another attacking rut or Alexis/Walcott get injured too.

Oh, on topic: Coquelin, along with Monreal, has been our best player this year and has delivered at least 8/10 performances almost every week. He's improving small things like close control and his passing consistency too.

Yeah, I've often wondered about why our players never seem to do that much on loan?

Maybe it's down to the style of play we try to teach? Wengerball, or whatever you want to call it, may not be something that translates that well to other sides and systems, and it could simply be that young players who have been trained to play for Arsenal will only ever look good playing for Arsenal? Or maybe we're not expecting them to be good - maybe we want it to be a tough experience for them, that exposes them to other sides of the game?

Then again, maybe these loan spells are less about what happens on the pitch, and more about testing a young player's professionalism, commitment and dedication? It's likely that we already know most of what we need to know about a player on a technical level before we send them out, so we could just be looking to see how they handle themselves in a first team environment before we risk them in our own? A school report card, so to speak. Do they turn up every day and train hard? Are they willing learners? Are they respectful? How do they handle themselves in private? Are they out partying to all hours, or do they go home and get an early night? Maybe this is where someone like Coq has succeeded where others have failed dismally?

[Master Splinter]

With a manager like Wenger, you're probably right in your assessment.

Which of course means Sanogo is going to be a monster of a player come next season.

On a serious note, if you look at the players loaned out last season and this season so far, it seems to range from mixed bag to hardly featuring once again. Apart from Jenkinson, who was already part of the first team here anyway. Zelalem and Maitland-Niles seem to be gathering the most praise.

Back on topic: Coquelin was once again instrumental in one of our goals when he won the ball from the throw-in, leading to Ramsey's pre-assist to Ozil. I think the stats back it up, but you only need to watch the games to see that Coq is one of the best tacklers, and more impressively, interceptors in the League.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Nah, not really - not for me anyway. I mean we did scout the lad and recruit him in the first place, we trained him, converted him to a defensive midfielder (I think he was a RB before?), sent him out on loan after loan when we could have just sold him years ago. Sure, when the opportunity finally came along for him (and for us, as it turns out), it probably owed more to circumstance than planning... but we did still bring him back, and that's worth remembering too. As much as I love the guy, even his biggest supporter would have to admit that he'd hardly set the world alight on his loan spells - I'm sure a lot of clubs and managers wouldn't have given him a second thought, and would have just reshuffled the pack until the missing players returned?

Anyway, let's not dwell on it too much - as it happens, Coq got his big break, and we got an awesome player, so everyone wins! Except for every other team in the league, of course...

Careful, coming round here with your objectivity, balance and perspective.......

I've seen some try to totally absolve Wenger of any credit whatsoever for him which I always find strange....as if he just took the wrong turn walking home from school one day and ended up at Arsenal football club. The poor lamb/ He only came to the club in the first place because Wenger brought him here.

I remember the silly suggestion from a few last season that we should wait till well into the summer just gone to offer him a contract extension. Fortunately it was offered and signed ages ago and I think Syn alluded to it ages ago when he said that if he was 6'2 he'd get far much more praise. I concur.

I honestly, hardly noticed him till his yellow card against Manure but in the good kind of way!

I'm delighted with this internal solution!

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

On a separate note and slightly off topic, I've often said that I think Gnabry was quite unlucky to find himself out on loan. He really didn't let anybody down when he played here.

[I am invisible]

One thing I'm really looking forward to seeing with Coquelin is whether his old partnership / understanding with Wilshere is still there? The two of them worked pretty well together in that youth cup winning side, but we've not really seen much / anything of them together in the first team yet.

I think it'll be good for Jack, seeing his old midfield partner there - he should be looking at him as an example of what's needed in terms of professionalism and attitude. And Cazorla's another great example for him, albeit in a different way - he's showing how a supposedly more forward-minded player can arguably be more valuable and more effective from one of those deeper roles. It seems to agree with him when playing for England, so let's hope the club are thinking along the same lines - I really think Jack and Coq could be a fine pairing for years to come...

[GP]

On a separate note and slightly off topic, I've often said that I think Gnabry was quite unlucky to find himself out on loan. He really didn't let anybody down when he played here.

He just got injured and found himself down the pecking order. He's not doing much on loan either.

[IBK]

Careful, coming round here with your objectivity, balance and perspective.......

I've seen some try to totally absolve Wenger of any credit whatsoever for him which I always find strange....as if he just took the wrong turn walking home from school one day and ended up at Arsenal football club. The poor lamb/ He only came to the club in the first place because Wenger brought him here.

I remember the silly suggestion from a few last season that we should wait till well into the summer just gone to offer him a contract extension. Fortunately it was offered and signed ages ago and I think Syn alluded to it ages ago when he said that if he was 6'2 he'd get far much more praise. I concur.

I honestly, hardly noticed him till his yellow card against Manure but in the good kind of way!

I'm delighted with this internal solution!

If you want balance - don't then generalise by referring to people regarding Coq as a 'pure' accident. Saying that the manager saw something in him when he was signed is a statement of the bleeding obvious. Wenger himself has admitted that he was taken by surprise by the player's development. He was in fact recalled from Charlton (where he had not pulled up any trees) in desperation - following Arteta's injury. Had Arteta not been injured, Coq could easily have gone the way of so many of our young players in never coming into the first team, and then being sold on. I accept that Wenger is often proved right in the sense that few of our rejected loanees go on to become celebrated players. I accept that his challenge to the player once recalled has been taken up by Coquelin in spades. But the player could easily have slipped through the manager's fingers but for circumstances - and he cannot, prior to December 2014, be said to have been part of an great master plan.

That said, we are all thankful for the twist of fortune that saw Coq become established, and while some may have been sceptical initially - I don't think there is any Gooner that doubts his value to the team now.

[selassie]

I love the guy too. Its a worry how he only got into the team by 'mistake' isn't it?

Aye, it's a classic Wenger "promotion" job. He kind of did the same thing with Flamini in his first spell here...though back then we did actually have some pretty decent options at DM though they were all flogged that season.