Has Wenger faiiled to develop our young players?

[Kano]

The correct answer

Not every young player we sign is a world beater.

I think we need to look on a broader scale at other clubs and how many they have developed over the years, particularly the English ones. Very scarce pickings for a reason.

And development of players comes down to far more than just the manager.

[Power n Glory]

Maybe the players we've had haven't been that good. But then why not? We have to be one of biggest clubs in England dedicated to developing young talent and then blooding them in the first team. We've been at it for over 10 years so I would have thought we'd have gotten lucky at some point. It's not as if our scouts weren't looking for the next big thing in football and dedicated years to finding that player.

Putting aside developing a great individual player, I also question why we never had a class that graduated from the ranks and went into the first team to form a strong unit. The vision was taken from Ajax and some of the players that grew up playing together in the academy and eventually made it to the first team. That team with the De Boar brothers, Kluivert, Davids, Seedorf, Van der Sar, etc. We've that youth graduation system at Barca and even United's treble team with Beckham, Scholes and the Neville brothers. How comes we end up with the Hoyte brothers instead? How comes the guys that came up under Bould are looking like they won't even make it into the first team?

I just would have thought we'd have done better considering our resources and the time we've put into this.

[hobson's choice]

I think it's a fair point to raise. With the exception of Ramsey who is obviously a better player now, I don't think we have any other players schooled by Wenger that look better 3-5 years down the line than when they entered the first team set up.

Give Wenger an ordinary player beyond his formative years and he'll most likely elevate their game to a new level, not sure he has that midas touch with youngsters who may not necessarily be the most naturally gifted and require a lot of coaching.

It will be interesting to see how Bellerin turns out in a few years.

Other than goal scoring how has Ramsey improved as CM, not a particular good passer, lacks discipline, cant control a game. Doesnt understand how to set an attack from the CM position at all. Our midfield has look downright garbage at times when he's part of the midfield 2.

[mastermind84]

Maybe the players we've had haven't been that good. But then why not? We have to be one of biggest clubs in England dedicated to developing young talent and then blooding them in the first team. We've been at it for over 10 years so I would have thought we'd have gotten lucky at some point. It's not as if our scouts weren't looking for the next big thing in football and dedicated years to finding that player.

Putting aside developing a great individual player, I also question why we never had a class that graduated from the ranks and went into the first team to form a strong unit. The vision was taken from Ajax and some of the players that grew up playing together in the academy and eventually made it to the first team. That team with the De Boar brothers, Kluivert, Davids, Seedorf, Van der Sar, etc. We've that youth graduation system at Barca and even United's treble team with Beckham, Scholes and the Neville brothers. How comes we end up with the Hoyte brothers instead? How comes the guys that came up under Bould are looking like they won't even make it into the first team?

I just would have thought we'd have done better considering our resources and the time we've put into this.

you dont understand why this is nonsense, do you?

A) this is extremely hard to do. If it were as easy as you are making it, United and Ajax would have done it every year since. they have not because its damn hard. United havent even put through a top youth player since that class of 1992. Who was the last great player to even come out of Ajax Academy? Im struggling to think, but it may actually be Seedorf.

B) Unless im mistaken, dont all of you guys love Wilshere and wish he would come back? He can run matches? Arsenal DNA, innit? What academy did he come from? Kieran Gibbs became an English international and is only behind the best left back in the premiership.

You guys do not understand how difficult it is to do what you want. Even Barcelona had to get Busquets, Messi, and Iniesta from other clubs

[mastermind84]

Other than goal scoring how has Ramsey improved as CM, not a particular good passer, lacks discipline, cant control a game. Doesnt understand how to set an attack from the CM position at all. Our midfield has look downright garbage at times when he's part of the midfield 2.

Ramsey aint been that good (altho he was really good against Stoke) but Flamini is the bigger problem. He has no legs and is afraid of the ball.

[Power n Glory]

you dont understand why this is nonsense, do you?

A) this is extremely hard to do. If it were as easy as you are making it, United and Ajax would have done it every year since. they have not because its damn hard. United havent even put through a top youth player since that class of 1992. Who was the last great player to even come out of Ajax Academy? Im struggling to think, but it may actually be Seedorf.

B) Unless im mistaken, dont all of you guys love Wilshere and wish he would come back? He can run matches? Arsenal DNA, innit? What academy did he come from? Kieran Gibbs became an English international and is only behind the best left back in the premiership.

You guys do not understand how difficult it is to do what you want. Even Barcelona had to get Busquets, Messi, and Iniesta from other clubs

Why is a question nonsense? It was our intention to create a system similar to what Ajax and Barca had from our youth system and we dedicated time and money to it. Poaching some of the best players from across the globe to try and create that system. Is it fair to say we failed? I didn't say it was easy to do. It was a question. Also, I wonder why these players aren't graduating to the first team.

Gibbs isn't a first teamer anymore and has lost his place to Monreal. Wilshere is always injured but would probably struggle to get into the first team too. Also, don't assume to know people's position on a player. That's nonsense. A few people don't rate Wilshere that highly. I don't.

We don't need to understand how difficult it is to produce a top player or solid first team player. I'm sure it is and I'm sure the Arsenal camp know it's difficult but we set ourselevs a task of producing a title winning team from that difficult system and it hasn't happened. Why is the question.

[Power n Glory]

Other than goal scoring how has Ramsey improved as CM, not a particular good passer, lacks discipline, cant control a game. Doesnt understand how to set an attack from the CM position at all. Our midfield has look downright garbage at times when he's part of the midfield 2.

I fear Ramsey is following in the same footsteps as Cesc Fabregas in terms of development. Different players with different attributes but it seems as though all the focus on their development went on scoring more goals and everything else got pushed to the wayside. Cesc was a great passer and could control the game from the midfield. He should have been a Xavi or Pirlo. His biggest weakness was the defensive discipline but Wenger had no interest in tightening that part of his game up it seems. Instead of keeping him as a CM, teaching discipline in his movement, working hard to win the ball back, he pushed him up field to a number 10 role so he could get more goals and not have to defend. So that effected how we controlled games because he wasn’t further down the pitch dictating the tempo of a game. Neglecting that side of his game effected his career at Barca and Pep didn’t trust him as CM so he’d play as a striker!

Now I see a similar pattern with Ramsey. As you rightly point out, it’s just the goal scoring that’s improved and everything else about his game hasn’t. He’s not a good passer of the ball and he has no positional awareness. You’re right about him not knowing how to set up an attack from the CM and that’s why Rosicky and Cazorla are so much better at it than him. But it seems like we have no interest in developing that side of his game. It’s why I question him getting played on the wing and Wenger praising the quality of his runs. That’s great but can we at least get him functioning as a CM that can control the flow of the game? He has a terrific engine and not afraid of making a tackle. I worry about his development because it looks like a similar pattern.

Way too much focus on scoring goals for some players. You only have to look at Ozil’s comments today about adding more goals to his game. Or take Walcott as another example where all wing play and build has been neglected and he’s just allowed to hang on the shoulder of defenders making runs all day instead of actually getting in the ball and dribbling. The balance just isn’t right when you look at it.

[Özim]

We've spent a fortune on our youth setup, buying in players at 15-16 for a the odd million or two and have literally bought hundreds of players in, that was our primary focus for years, yes we have had a few successes but I personally think the results have been very underwhelming.

We've had youth teams winning trophies and barely a player coming through, we've had young players around the 1st team for years who just haven't improved or have regressed and often we've missed out on top talents that were available at the very clubs we bought some of our kids from (which is even more disappointing).

I really don't feel Wenger is that great with youth players, getting players off the Barca setup seems to be his best bet, as clearly Barca's setup is pretty special.

[Özim]

I fear Ramsey is following in the same footsteps as Cesc Fabregas in terms of development. Different players with different attributes but it seems as though all the focus on their development went on scoring more goals and everything else got pushed to the wayside. Cesc was a great passer and could control the game from the midfield. He should have been a Xavi or Pirlo. His biggest weakness was the defensive discipline but Wenger had no interest in tightening that part of his game up it seems. Instead of keeping him as a CM, teaching discipline in his movement, working hard to win the ball back, he pushed him up field to a number 10 role so he could get more goals and not have to defend. So that effected how we controlled games because he wasn’t further down the pitch dictating the tempo of a game. Neglecting that side of his game effected his career at Barca and Pep didn’t trust him as CM so he’d play as a striker!

Now I see a similar pattern with Ramsey. As you rightly point out, it’s just the goal scoring that’s improved and everything else about his game hasn’t. He’s not a good passer of the ball and he has no positional awareness. You’re right about him not knowing how to set up an attack from the CM and that’s why Rosicky and Cazorla are so much better at it than him. But it seems like we have no interest in developing that side of his game. It’s why I question him getting played on the wing and Wenger praising the quality of his runs. That’s great but can we at least get him functioning as a CM that can control the flow of the game? He has a terrific engine and not afraid of making a tackle. I worry about his development because it looks like a similar pattern.

Way too much focus on scoring goals for some players. You only have to look at Ozil’s comments today about adding more goals to his game. Or take Walcott as another example where all wing play and build has been neglected and he’s just allowed to hang on the shoulder of defenders making runs all day instead of actually getting in the ball and dribbling. The balance just isn’t right when you look at it.

Wenger has no interest in the defensive side of the game, he just thinks about the offensive side, his comments a number of years ago about more points for goals highlight this, Barcelona turning up with their tippy tappy football many years ago was the worst thing that could have happened to us because Wenger has taken this as the blueprint and put all of our focus on attack (although they also had a very hard working team, even if they did look vulnerable defensively at times).

Football is about more than attacking, a solid defensive unit is sometimes required to snatch results when you're not playing well. The irony is offensively we're nowhere near as good as we could be either.

[Power n Glory]

It seems that way. You can see a pattern in the sort of young players he's helped develop. It's fine to focus on a player like Ozil getting goals although I find it odd that Ozil has spoken out in public to contradict Wenger. See below.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/i-do...s-my-game-ozil