Match Reaction v Soton (Home)

[Power n Glory]

People are talking as if there's any positional discipline in our team at all. As far as I can see, Coquelin is the only player than bothers with the concept and that's probably only because Wenger doesn't trust him and so doesn't give him that freedom (a euphemism for the absence of discipline) he allows others.

CM, DM, on the left, on the right, what difference does it make in a Wenger team? Our players are all over the place and if the manager cared about that he'd do something about it. On the contrary, it must be him who permits the chaos. It descends into pure farce on occasion. Against Southampton there was the Kos miss. Shame he missed, but what the hell was he even doing there? Campbell has taken to wandering too of late and it has already started to hurt his game. Does this mean Wenger has warmed to him?

Wenger giving players freedom and a player having positional awareness and discipline is a separate subject. Cazorla and Rosicky are prime examples. They never played as CM before and only due to injuries have they gotten a chance their but they understood what the team needed and we're they fit in. I accept that we haven't got a coach that's big on dishing out instructions but I don't get how some players can be so brainless when it comes to discipline. This is what I'd call a footballing brain issue. How can you see how we're struggling to move the ball forward, being forced wide with our wingers and wingbacks being forced down narrow channels and not offer support? Not offer a passing outlet instead of just rushing forward into the box? It's the same problem I have with Walcott just focusing on making runs when playing as a right winger on Tuesday. Can't they see the ball needs to be worked and we're struggling from deep areas? That's the difference difference between awareness and execution.

Take Arteta as an example. Was bought as a CM but saw we lacked discipline with no true DM and he made himself available for that role. That's the job he felt needed doing for the team and Wenger went with it. He doesn't go looking for glory, he understand what's need and just sits. Plays the anchor role and provides defensive cover. He has the awareness, discipline and intelligence for the role. I'm sure if he felt like going for glory and roaming further forward Wenger would let him but he doesn't do that. Most players in the team have a license to do what they want but that doesn't mean you do so when it's detrimental to the team. See Flamini.

I can understand a player not having the chops for a role. Not having the ability to execute what's required. Example, too slow, poor stamina, poor first touch, too weak, can't tackle...etc. But Ramsey is a player that has the ability to execute most of what's required to play as CM except the brain and awareness. That's his downfall. I'm not sure if that's something that can be learned or if we have to restrict his role to something more simple but I'm not focusing too much on Wenger because we already know he's not going to do anything. It's purely down to the players to learn quickly and do what's required of them.

[IBK]

It's not the pressure. It's the cowardice of the manager and his negative shitty tactics. If we're going to play the same way against every opponent then at least let it be like this, win, lose or draw.



Instead - when we had the feel good factor and a bit of momentum building he got terrified because we had injuries and he forced the team into a shell. Ever since, we have been SHITE. And he persists with it even though bad result is following on from bad result.

The Liverpool game. Some fans actually thought that was a good result. LOSING TWO POINTS in the last minute because we'd gone totally defensive. That was the start of the end. All as a result of cowardice and fear.

Stoke, disaster of a result. Again, some - including the manager, said it was decent to be dropping another two points against that shite.

Another slow start against the chavs instead of hitting their creaky old defence with pace.

The debacles against Southampton. What a fucking disgrace that 4-0 was, the warning signs were all there but the manager ignored them.

Norwich, West Brom, we've been playing awful, negative, fearful shite for weeks.

Manager's fault. All of it. If you are preaching cowardice and negativity then that's what will materialise on the pitch. The players are a reflection of their trembling manager. He;s the one who has no bottle, he's the one who can't handle the pressure. The attitude of the team starts with him. Same Theo Walcott against Man Utd as the guy who attempted 3 passes against Southampton. 3 passes! What's the manager going to do about that. I'll tell you. Fuck all.

Wenger has tried to creep his way to a title, eking out averages here and there, going for percentages, fighting mediocrity with mediocrity, covering his balls and praying nobody hurts him. You don't win titles like that. You don't compete like that.

He has 14 games to find his bollocks and sort his shit out. We have a good enough team to win all 14. But unless some miracle occurs and the old quivering fool somehow sees the light we just don't have the leader to take us there.

Wenger's fault. All him. Has been for ages. The one constant.

Agree with the highlighted part. This is the difference between Wenger, and the likes of Ranieiri and Pochettino. The cautious possession game - looking to find that elusive opening - is not best suited for the majority of games that we play in the EPL, and what's more it invites the counter attack - which ironically is our biggest Achilles heel - when inevitably we lose possession. So we have 2 psychological issues here. First caution as you say looks like it breeds indecision and nervousness about the opposition. Second, we are constantly jittery about being sucker-punched, and while this may not affect individual front players so much, as a team we end up neither one nor the other. Rarely do we have bodies bursting into the box, yet often we are caught too high up the pitch. I agree that if we often play without conviction, then this is down to the manager's approach.

[IBK]

Wenger giving players freedom and a player having positional awareness and discipline is a separate subject. Cazorla and Rosicky are prime examples. They never played as CM before and only due to injuries have they gotten a chance their but they understood what the team needed and we're they fit in. I accept that we haven't got a coach that's big on dishing out instructions but I don't get how some players can be so brainless when it comes to discipline. This is what I'd call a footballing brain issue. How can you see how we're struggling to move the ball forward, being forced wide with our wingers and wingbacks being forced down narrow channels and not offer support? Not offer a passing outlet instead of just rushing forward into the box? It's the same problem I have with Walcott just focusing on making runs when playing as a right winger on Tuesday. Can't they see the ball needs to be worked and we're struggling from deep areas? That's the difference difference between awareness and execution.

Take Arteta as an example. Was bought as a CM but saw we lacked discipline with no true DM and he made himself available for that role. That's the job he felt needed doing for the team and Wenger went with it. He doesn't go looking for glory, he understand what's need and just sits. Plays the anchor role and provides defensive cover. He has the awareness, discipline and intelligence for the role. I'm sure if he felt like going for glory and roaming further forward Wenger would let him but he doesn't do that. Most players in the team have a license to do what they want but that doesn't mean you do so when it's detrimental to the team. See Flamini.

I can understand a player not having the chops for a role. Not having the ability to execute what's required. Example, too slow, poor stamina, poor first touch, too weak, can't tackle...etc. But Ramsey is a player that has the ability to execute most of what's required to play as CM except the brain and awareness. That's his downfall. I'm not sure if that's something that can be learned or if we have to restrict his role to something more simple but I'm not focusing too much on Wenger because we already know he's not going to do anything. It's purely down to the players to learn quickly and do what's required of them.

But also - the manager needs to recognise his limitations and if he wants to play Ramsey centrally, perhaps go for a 4-4-1-1- with Ramsey playing centrally behind the striker. Wenger is wedded to his 4-3-3 variation, and Ramsey is not at his best playing wide, but neither is he right for a central pairing where he needs defensive discipline. Sometimes you need to play to players' strengths instead of assuming that they can fit in anywhere. Wenger does not do this nearly enough, and his formation and personnel are predictable. Also, while I understand the quality of Sanchez and Ozil , and their suitability to play wide positions in a front three - Wenger has always tended to regard certain players' positions as inviolate - and play them whenever they are available. However, this can operate to the detriment of others like Ramsey; the Ox - even Walcott. Square pegs in round holes generally don't work, and Wenger has too many of them.

[IBK]

Not sure he'd be interested in the director of football role. Dictator of football, that would be the minimum he'd settle for I suspect.

Missed this gem.

[mastermind84]

It doesn't relate because he was playing in a completely different position and it's why he was more disciplined and simplified his game. That demonstrates he has the ability to pass and keep it simple at DM but that doesn't mean he knows how to play as CM. Also, the game you're talking about was the build up to him finding that form that had him scoring goals for fun the following season. It was the start of him finding his confidence again. It adds further evidence to the original debate where you've wrongly assumed Ramsey needs Arteta to play next to him to flourish. He doesn't. He just needs a brain and maybe some guidance from Wenger again to build from the back and pick his runs more strategically. He's not demonstrating that at the moments and besides that one moment where he was on form, he hasn't shown it before or since. I'll avoid using the word season since you want to play semantics. But as I said in the original debate, something started to click with Ramsey early and we can probably pin point it to him playing as DM.

This is worth a read.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...e-Arsenal.html

Even after a stint at DM he mentions wanting to get forward and getting into the box. That's probably his problem and where I see him going wrong at CM.

http://arseblog.com/2016/02/tactics-...d-effectively/

It's also worth reading this from Arseblog. With the middle being so packed and us depending so much on Bellerin moving the ball forward, I have no idea why he didn't have the sense to drop back and provide more support. It's a complaint I've had with the Wilshere/Ramsey/Arteta axis of ages. Only when Rosicky or Cazorla come into the fold are we able to play through the middle more comfortably and I don't think Wenger gives instructions on where a player should be when playing CM as Arseblog assumes. A more attack minded player like Cazorla has enough sense to sit deep and build slowly from the back. I don't know why he'd give Ramsey different instructions.

I will repeat it one more time. THE SECOND HALF OF THAT SEASON HE SHOWED HE COULD PLAY DISCIPLINED CENTRAL MIDFIELD! It was not just one match but the last 15-16 games or so.

He won Player of the Month in April that year with no goals and assists. That shows how even fans were starting to see him controlling matches.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-arc...he-month-award

that 2012-13 season he had one goal and two assists so he wasnt an attacking force. He only took 1.3 shots a game. The next season that jumped to about 2.2 and its been above 2.2 since.

Ramsey's goal scoring is a big asset though because we only have 3 guys that realistically can score goals in this entire squad. He just needs to do a better job at picking his spots but its in his locker to be a disciplined player. Thats the big reason he jumped Jack in the order and many others. He needs to stop being goal hungry but instead find the right moments to do get in there. Thats his big problem but he can do that.

[Power n Glory]

But also - the manager needs to recognise his limitations and if he wants to play Ramsey centrally, perhaps go for a 4-4-1-1- with Ramsey playing centrally behind the striker. Wenger is wedded to his 4-3-3 variation, and Ramsey is not at his best playing wide, but neither is he right for a central pairing where he needs defensive discipline. Sometimes you need to play to players' strengths instead of assuming that they can fit in anywhere. Wenger does not do this nearly enough, and his formation and personnel are predictable. Also, while I understand the quality of Sanchez and Ozil , and their suitability to play wide positions in a front three - Wenger has always tended to regard certain players' positions as inviolate - and play them whenever they are available. However, this can operate to the detriment of others like Ramsey; the Ox - even Walcott. Square pegs in round holes generally don't work, and Wenger has too many of them.

That’s an argument we’ve had on here for years and it’s just not going to happen. He won’t switch the formation to suit a player and even in a 4-4-1-1 Ramsey wouldn’t beat Ozil for that role, but that’s a side issue. Hoping for Wenger to find the solution is pointless. Only through injury and fortune has he come across key players like Coquelin, Monreal and Cazorla as CM. He’s hopeless so I’m not focussing on what he needs to do anymore because he’s got nothing left to offer. He won’t surprise us with anything new for the remained of the season so it’s time to look for the players to find their second wind. Or bloody injuries to force his hand with team selection. It’s come to that level. It’s frustrating as hell but I also think some players need to sort it out. I get how playing a highline when we have Merts in the squad is risky because the player simply doesn’t have the attributes for it. That’s on the coach. I get how Giroud isn’t suitable for certain games even. But when you have the ability, the attributes and it’s just a case of recognising your role, I blame the player.

Some things the players should just be able to work out. I’ll usually defend Theo Walcott but how can he not recognise that he’s only completed two passes in over 30 minutes of football? Similar to Ramsey, I saw the idiot making runs into the box when he should have been coming short because there was no passing lane. He made two decent crosses that opened up Southampton, why isn’t he smart enough to think he needs to work the channels and put more crosses into the box? That’s a footballing intelligence problem. I don’t know how these guys can watch games of themselves and not come away looking to adapt? On the one hand we say Wenger gives player freedom so shouldn’t that mean they aren’t restricted in their role and he’s not telling them not to come short, not sit deeper, just focus on getting into the box? These guys are old enough and have been through enough bad patches that they should know by now. How have they not done their own research? I’m not excusing Wenger but some players are walking themselves into a dead end career if they continue like this. Theo has no career at the top level if he were to leave Arsenal today because he’s neither competent as a striker or winger. He’s playing like Podolski right now just with more pace and lot less clinical. He needs to really step his game up or he’ll find himself on the trash heap with the rest of the obsolete players the modern game has no use for.

Sorry for the rant. I’ve kind of lost patience for the lot of them. There seems to be no reaction from the Board, the manager or even the players. Something needs to click either of them this season. Now. Or it’s time for the fans to do something different and just stop bothering with it.

[Power n Glory]

I will repeat it one more time. THE SECOND HALF OF THAT SEASON HE SHOWED HE COULD PLAY DISCIPLINED CENTRAL MIDFIELD! It was not just one match but the last 15-16 games or so.

He won Player of the Month in April that year with no goals and assists. That shows how even fans were starting to see him controlling matches.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-arc...he-month-award

that 2012-13 season he had one goal and two assists so he wasnt an attacking force. He only took 1.3 shots a game. The next season that jumped to about 2.2 and its been above 2.2 since.

Ramsey's goal scoring is a big asset though because we only have 3 guys that realistically can score goals in this entire squad. He just needs to do a better job at picking his spots but its in his locker to be a disciplined player. Thats the big reason he jumped Jack in the order and many others. He needs to stop being goal hungry but instead find the right moments to do get in there. Thats his big problem but he can do that.

Really? Caps lock? Sheesh. It doens't enhance your point.


Read that again and take a seat.

Also, the game you're talking about was the build up to him finding that form that had him scoring goals for fun the following season. It was the start of him finding his confidence again.

[mastermind84]

Really? Caps lock? Sheesh. It doens't enhance your point.


Read that again and take a seat.

you said Ramsey was incapable of playing that way. I just posted you he did and reminded you that you fell back from that wrong stance last week, and now you have decided to change goal posts, like you always do.

[Power n Glory]

you said Ramsey was incapable of playing that way. I just posted you he did and reminded you that you fell back from that wrong stance last week, and now you have decided to change goal posts, like you always do.

Do you reply to anyone else on GW or just reply to my posts like a groupie?

You seem too preoccupied with playing semantics to try to get the gist of what's being said. It's even to the point that your undermining your own argument of Ramsey needing Arteta.

The point is Ramsey hasn't found that same form that had him playing with confidence and for arguments sake, we'll call it a fluke period and it started after he was getting booed and then dropped from the first team. After he went to Wenger for advice. We're talking a year and some months of good form. Isn't this his 8th year at Arsenal? Can you pinpoint any other year where he was just as good? FFS this isn't rocket science.

[Letters]

It's nice you two are taking up the slack while NQ and me are on a break