They'll sack him if he fails to meet his targets. He always does.Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
They'll sack him if he fails to meet his targets. He always does.
And those targets, at any normal club, would get the manager sacked. 4th place, last 16, win a cup to save your arse, dodge the transfer window, repeat for a decade. It's a really incredible record, how have they managed to get away with it?
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OK, but that's irrelevant to the point. There's a school of thought on here that Wenger is unsackable and it doesn't matter how we do.
Balls. Of course it does.
Whether the board's targets and the fans' aspirations are aligned is a different issue.
Had we finished mid-table (as many have predicted endlessly we would because of the spiral of decline Wenger apparently has us in - he doesn't, obviously) and he'd have gone IMO.
Are you so sure he would have been sacked had we ever finished mid-table? He hasn't delivered a significant trophy in 12 years, and forget about the FA Cup which is a consolation prize at very best. We all know the trophies a club like Arsenal should be chasing and have a realistic chance of winning. He's not delivered but he's still here. That's really quite amazing when you consider the general churn of managers in the modern game. If we'd finished mid-table, and don't forget there have been times when it looked like we'd miss out on the 4th Place Trophy and the board made a point of coming out and stating the club could afford it, what would have prevented the usual happening - a whole bunch of excuses followed by hollow promises? And might we not have politely pissed Wengerites stating, "If we ever get relegated, this guy should be sacked!" Or, "If we ever drop out of the league and the club goes bust and the ground is converted to a car park, we should start to think about getting rid of this adorable legend!" How far could the excuse and promises be taken? We've heard them all, haven't we? So I'm not at all sure he'd be sacked if we ended up mid-table, carry on with our current form and that might just happen. Maybe two seasons in a row, but a one-off? I'd say 50/50 at best. There are still a lot of fans who are perfectly happy being ripped off in return for mediocrity. We're finishing below a couple of mid-table teams this year, Wenger's not going to be sacked for it. Though he most certainly should be.
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Well, it's my opinion that he would have. It would have seen a significant drop in income. A couple of seasons outside the top 4 and I think he'd have gone.
Obviously we'll never know though so it's a somewhat pointless debate because he's never dropped out of the top 4.
Oh, and Spurs aren't a mid-table team any more. Leicester...yeah, we shouldn't be finishing below them (nor should the other big guns though) and Wenger should be sacked if we do.
I like the goalpost moving about what's a significant trophy though
So are we agreeing? More than one total fuck up required for him to get the boot?Well, it's my opinion that he would have. It would have seen a significant drop in income. A couple of seasons outside the top 4 and I think he'd have gone.
Obviously we'll never know though so it's a somewhat pointless debate because he's never dropped out of the top 4.
Oh, and Spurs aren't a mid-table team any more. Leicester...yeah, we shouldn't be finishing below them (nor should the other big guns though) and Wenger should be sacked if we do.
I like the goalpost moving about what's a significant trophy though
Goalpost moving?
So ask yourself a simple question. If we win the FA Cup this year will it mean we've had a successful season? If the FA Cup is any way important you'd have to say yes. But if you come out of this season feeling disappointed (you're prepared to sack the manager if we finish below Leicester) then doesn't this give you a pretty solid idea of the true value of the FA Cup? It's a minor trophy, of course it is. No "big" club goes into a season with the FA Cup as a central ambition. That's why even teams like Hull will play a weakened side in the tournament now.
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I think successful would be pushing it. It is an important trophy and winning 3 in a row would be nice but now we're a few years into the era with the new financial deals in place I would have expected us to push on for the bigger prizes. And given that if we don't win the league it will be at the expense of Spurs or Leicester, I don't think you could call the season a success.
But let's not pretend we thought of the FA Cup as a "consolation prize at very best" or a "minor trophy" a couple of years back. There was a general mood of celebration:
http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/sh...t=2857&page=62
Even Zim was pleased
(Couple of pages on from the above link)Absolutely fucking brilliant for Wenger
And the celebration continued on the match reaction thread:
http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2885
And on page 8 of that thread you said, and I quote:
Bit of an over-reaction when we'd merely win a "minor trophy", a "consolation prize" isn't it?Wenger
And when Wenger signed a new contract, on the back of the Cup win you said:
http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2908Good stuff. Good this is sorted early, now on with the business of locating the chequebook.
Doesn't sound like you or anyone else were turning their noses up at the Cup back then or viewing it as a consolation prize or a minor trophy. But now the mood has turned so people are pretending it's not a big deal and dismissing the Cup wins they were once so pleased about.
Wenger should be sacked if we finish below Leicester or Spurs because he has failed to push us on from those Cup wins and he has the money to do so. That doesn't mean the Cup is not important, you wouldn't have got that level of celebration for a league cup win, even if it was the first trophy for as long as it was before the FA Cup 2 years ago.
Just checking your logic.
Arsenal fans happy to win the FA Cup;
Therefore;
FA Cup = major trophy.
Correct?
I was also bloody relieved on more that one occasion to scrape 4th. Which means the 4th Place Trophy is in fact a major trophy.
Of course the FA Cup is a consolation at best. A couple of years back it may have been a bit more than that but only because we'd gone years without a trophy so that particular win could have been viewed as a step towards something more significant. False dawn of course, but a pleasant delusion at the time.
You say Wenger should be sacked if we don't finish above Leicester, even if we win the Cup. So the Cup isn't really a consolation at all then, for you at least it's something even less than that.
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Also, I got to that level of celebration a couple of weeks back when we beat Leicester. And as Wenger has pointed out, we've just done the Leicester Trophy double. Another major trophy!
Trophies everywhere.
Us
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You wouldn't have got that level of celebration after a league cup win, even if it was our first trophy for 9 years so yes, it does show the way Arsenal fans, you included, regard the competition.
And even if you claim it was in the heat of the moment, why some weeks later support Wenger getting a new contract on the strength of it?
No trophy for that long, then a "minor trophy" and you're suddenly happy the guy has signed a new contract?
Wenger should be sacked because he hasn't pushed us on since that despite having the money to do so, that doesn't mean the FA Cup wouldn't be a nice end to the season.
You're like someone who has been on a couple of dates with a hot girl, it's gone really well and you've started telling your friends how special she is and then she stops calling you and you're now pretending you never liked her in the first place.
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