Should we be worried about our club's future?

[IBK]

Both are equally responsible for the malaise. Maybe it is wishful thinking but I just think the situation at our club is very unique and I don't think it's a given that Wenger's successor will be given the same free reign.

I agree that Wenger's successor will almost by definition not have the unhealthy level of influence at every level that he enjoys - but given Wenger's legacy of not spending big, its difficult to see how this will change given the owner's approach to his cash cow.

[Power n Glory]

We may be overthinking this ownership issue. Wenger's influence over the club just paints a bleak picture. Until he goes we won't really know the extent of the problem. In theory, there really isn't much wrong with the way we are run. The high ticket prices and lack of spending on players is a real issue for me but we really don't know if that's the Board's influence or Wenger's. Once he goes, we may find a manager that uses his resources more wisely. For example, if the Board are so tightfisted, I've never understood why they were so comfortable spending so much in wages for mediocre players and being so generous with renewals. Diaby, Ox, Wilshere, Walcott, Ramsey, Bendy..... This goes back before the sponsorship deals and if we were that concerned about expenditure and revenue, surely that wage bill is the first thing to go under the microscope. £50k here and £60k there for players far from ready and warming the bench should raise eyebrows. I don't know how those deals, especially for young players, could have been approved without Wenger giving the thumbs up. We've already heard him talk about a 'socialist wage structure' where everyone is paid equally. That's his theory on how to keep a happy dressing. Now that we have even more money to spend, it seems like he's more than happy to dole out £100k contracts to his favorites.

I think the Board are just happy to go along with what Wenger says. It's foolish in hindsight, but would we really want a Liverpool or Real Madrid situation where the Board are too involved? I think most managers will expect to have to work to a budget and even if it's not a massive pot, it is something. With a better manager, I think we can push the boat out. Also, unless we appoint some over the hill, has been asswipe, I can't imagine we'd find a manager as unambitious as Wenger. The disappointment with Wenger is the fact that his record isn't an embarrassment to him. He gets prickly when pressed on the matter, as seen yesterday, but he won't do anything about it. I really can't see any other manager, so new and fresh into a job being content with the minimal. Not pressing the Board for more support and backing.

[I am invisible]

Do any Premier League clubs need to worry about anything ever again once this new TV deal kicks in? As long as you're not getting relegated then you're pretty much set for life.

With regards to success, I think everything in football is very short-term these days, and I can't see any more 20 year stints once Wenger goes - you're looking at 3 years, tops, for most coaches these days, so there'll be regular opportunities to freshen things up. That doesn't mean that a 26 year drought isn't still possible, but it probably won't be through lack of trying...

[Kano]

So its pretty clear that we are seeing the last throes of the Wenger era. This season has shown us in stark relief that the manager does not have what it takes to build a title winning team - but more worryingly that we can no longer look at so-called financial doping to explain why our team cannot fulfill its potential to be winners. Having seen what we have seen, even if by some fluke Leicester and Sp*rs contrive to throw away their advantage over us, I think its fair to say that for a club of our size and ambitions the Premiership would be ours by default rather than on real merit. Even if Wenger doesn't walk and we suffer another couple of years of relative mediocrity there is nothing to suggest that, having had 10 years to plan winning the league and come up short, the manager will alter his approach - or indeed do anything substantive to address the perennial failings of his team.

But while I think most Gooners have come to the point where almost anything would be preferable to our endless cycle of under-achievement, is there any real cause for optimism about our short to mid term future? One of the reasons why it has taken so long for many fans to bite the bullet and wish Wenger gone is that top 4 and CL football is preferable to mid table obscurity. Wenger is fond of pointing out that he sees himself as a custodian of the club's future security - but in reality will he end up leaving a base that can and will be built on to achieve more than we have become accustomed to over the past decade?

As well as showing that proper coaching; tactics and getting the basics right remain the key to footballing success, this season (and in the case of Manure and Liverpool - the past few seasons) has also shown us that even with managers of repute, there is no quick fix when successful managers leave a club. Looking at Manure's decline and even identity crisis since SAF retired, it is difficult not to be apprehensive about what happens to us when Wenger goes. Manure were similar to us in terms of their manager's longevity, but Wenger is even more embedded in the very essence culture and workings of our club - to the extent that unlike SAF, we don't even have any tradition of proper coaches working under him. Could the power vacuum be even more destructive with our team?

And added to that, unlike Manure; Liverpool; Citeh or the Chavs we have an owner who does not even regard footballing success as essential to his business model - let alone as something to aspire to for its own sake. We have a 'board' in name only as far as decision making is concerned; and an impotent chief executive. Do we even trust them to appoint the right successor - let alone to invest the money to support him?

I think we can assume that our competitors will make managerial signings that reflect their ambitions. Citeh have already; Manure and the Chavs surely cannot get it wrong forever, and Liverpool have appointed someone who we all expected to be more of a success than he has been to date (which merely underlines the difficulty of achieving success from a broadly similar base to our own). With the TV money, our league is only getting ever more competetive - and we have seen this over the past season.

So - Wenger or not - do we feel that there is a cause for optimism that we will be successful going forwards, or is there every reason to be concerned that we will be the Liverpool of our own era - 26 years and counting since last winning the league? Thoughts?

All depends on the owners. Kroenke and Usmanov are going nowhere fast. The money in our bank is a wonderful asset to use for leveraging their deals elsewhere. With PL money and potentially a European League coming after that, why would they sell up? Beyond those two, we will forever be in the hands of billionaire owners, either turning us into vanity projects like City/Chelsea/PSG or keeping the current model for their own benefit. We should be more worried about the future of football more than any one club at this rate. Winning titles and cups will become ever more meaningless as the financial pot increases, where the club finishing bottom of the Premier scoops up £100m (from next season). Lock 20 of the big clubs into a Euro league, the money becomes even bigger and the prizes absolutely pointless when you have 'mega-games' every weekend.

[selassie]

We may be overthinking this ownership issue. Wenger's influence over the club just paints a bleak picture. Until he goes we won't really know the extent of the problem. In theory, there really isn't much wrong with the way we are run. The high ticket prices and lack of spending on players is a real issue for me but we really don't know if that's the Board's influence or Wenger's. Once he goes, we may find a manager that uses his resources more wisely. For example, if the Board are so tightfisted, I've never understood why they were so comfortable spending so much in wages for mediocre players and being so generous with renewals. Diaby, Ox, Wilshere, Walcott, Ramsey, Bendy..... This goes back before the sponsorship deals and if we were that concerned about expenditure and revenue, surely that wage bill is the first thing to go under the microscope. £50k here and £60k there for players far from ready and warming the bench should raise eyebrows. I don't know how those deals, especially for young players, could have been approved without Wenger giving the thumbs up. We've already heard him talk about a 'socialist wage structure' where everyone is paid equally. That's his theory on how to keep a happy dressing. Now that we have even more money to spend, it seems like he's more than happy to dole out £100k contracts to his favorites.

I think the Board are just happy to go along with what Wenger says. It's foolish in hindsight, but would we really want a Liverpool or Real Madrid situation where the Board are too involved? I think most managers will expect to have to work to a budget and even if it's not a massive pot, it is something. With a better manager, I think we can push the boat out. Also, unless we appoint some over the hill, has been asswipe, I can't imagine we'd find a manager as unambitious as Wenger. The disappointment with Wenger is the fact that his record isn't an embarrassment to him. He gets prickly when pressed on the matter, as seen yesterday, but he won't do anything about it. I really can't see any other manager, so new and fresh into a job being content with the minimal. Not pressing the Board for more support and backing.

Great thread IBK.

Yeah I agree with this P'n'G, I think there are quite a few unanswered questions regarding our ambition or lack of it in the market, though in my opinion our lack of ambition in the market does point towards Wenger.

Money aside, we could and should be doing better than we currently are, we're underachieving now, there are no two ways about it. In short, a young hungry manager could quite prove to be an upgrade on Wenger and thus we would be in a healthier position.

[IBK]

We may be overthinking this ownership issue. Wenger's influence over the club just paints a bleak picture. Until he goes we won't really know the extent of the problem. In theory, there really isn't much wrong with the way we are run. The high ticket prices and lack of spending on players is a real issue for me but we really don't know if that's the Board's influence or Wenger's. Once he goes, we may find a manager that uses his resources more wisely. For example, if the Board are so tightfisted, I've never understood why they were so comfortable spending so much in wages for mediocre players and being so generous with renewals. Diaby, Ox, Wilshere, Walcott, Ramsey, Bendy..... This goes back before the sponsorship deals and if we were that concerned about expenditure and revenue, surely that wage bill is the first thing to go under the microscope. £50k here and £60k there for players far from ready and warming the bench should raise eyebrows. I don't know how those deals, especially for young players, could have been approved without Wenger giving the thumbs up. We've already heard him talk about a 'socialist wage structure' where everyone is paid equally. That's his theory on how to keep a happy dressing. Now that we have even more money to spend, it seems like he's more than happy to dole out £100k contracts to his favorites.

I think the Board are just happy to go along with what Wenger says. It's foolish in hindsight, but would we really want a Liverpool or Real Madrid situation where the Board are too involved? I think most managers will expect to have to work to a budget and even if it's not a massive pot, it is something. With a better manager, I think we can push the boat out. Also, unless we appoint some over the hill, has been asswipe, I can't imagine we'd find a manager as unambitious as Wenger. The disappointment with Wenger is the fact that his record isn't an embarrassment to him. He gets prickly when pressed on the matter, as seen yesterday, but he won't do anything about it. I really can't see any other manager, so new and fresh into a job being content with the minimal. Not pressing the Board for more support and backing.

Good points re the Owner/board simply indulging Wenger - and I do agree that we are seeing an unholy alliance between a non-pragmatic and increasingly flawed managerial approach and an unambitious board that is happy to indulge him as long as finances are looking after themselves. The question is whether any replacement manager will, whatever his personal ambition, alter the board's approach. My concern is that the owner will remain content with the financial rewards of 4th place. Just as it can be unhealthy having too much board interference, so success is surely reliant on a board/owner having an ambition/appetite for the same? Kano is quite right - our owner is going nowhere - and we have seen from his US sports franchises that sporting success is simply not on his agenda.

[Özim]

On the one hand i'll be ecstatic when Wenger leaves, it's what I've wanted to see for years and will be a great thing for the club in the long term IMO.

In the short/mid term I expect there to be somewhat of a lull, it's to be expected when you leave one man with so much control over 20 years, everything about this club is about Wenger and that's unhealthy, players have been brought up to celebrate mediocrity, to pass at every opportunity, to be mentally weak and to receive inflated wages for achieving nothing.

A new manager has a lot to contend with, he'll have to change the whole culture of the club, the players mindset, the fact they've been treated like princesses and protected from any kind of criticism, he'll have to have a clearout as some players just won't fit in and we have a load of crocks and players who haven't stepped up, that's hard after 20 years of one guy who was so blinkered nothing anyone else said matters, Wenger if you look at it has left us in not such great shape other than financially and even in those terms we'll always remain relatively cautious.

I'd also worry about who would come in, if Wenger has any kind of say in this we're f*cked. Longer term however prospects will be much better, once Wenger and his methods have been dismantled from every area of the club we have the foundations to be very successful. People don't see it but Wenger has done a lot of damage to this club in the last 10 years in more ways than one, he's been so stubborn and had so much control and made the club one that prioritses finances over success on the pitch, moving away from that will inevitably come with it's own problems.

[Letters]

Wow that's a load of bullshit.

[Özim]

Wow that's a load of bullshit.

You would say that of course.

[fakeyank]

If your question is if the club will go into obscurity like Leeds or Portsmouth, then no. If you are asking if we are at danger of getting knocked off the CL places and considered a top English team, then yes... someone just mentioned the example of Nokia, and that was spot on. We will gradually slide into mid-table and people will be asking "We did everything right but somehow got shafted".

Successful clubs are once that are pro-active and not reactive. The more we sit on our arses thinking Wenger will somehow turn our fortunes, the worse we are making it for us. We should have a potential candidate lined up right now for the end of the season. Give this person the entire pre-season to get tactics and formations right.

To me one thing is certain.. we are sliding into the shitter slowly every season with the clown in charge. We need to wake up!