Who Will Win The League - 2

[selassie]

Excellent debating

I wasn't actually debating, I just find it amusing how Chelsea, City and the dopers get included in every discussion we have about Arsenal with you.

Yes we know City and to a lesser extent these days Chelsea spend big money, yes we know they have stronger squads than ours. But for me it always comes back to are WE as in Arsenal FC doing enough to be competitive on the field.

The assumption you made with your analogy was that we have rich owners that are not giving Wenger a budget to work with. How do you know what his budget is? If anything, the noises coming out of the camp have been that Wenger has a good financial budget and is not using it.

[Letters]

IBut for me it always comes back to are WE as in Arsenal FC doing enough to be competitive on the field.

I think that's valid and I agree we haven't made the most of the resources we do have.
But to suggest the billionaires haven't had a massive impact over the last decade is ridiculous.
And to suggest that the wealth of our owner relative to other owners means we have the same resources available as other clubs make no sense.
It doesn't matter how much money our owner has, only how much he is willing to make available to us.

[IBK]

I wasn't actually debating, I just find it amusing how Chelsea, City and the dopers get included in every discussion we have about Arsenal with you.

Yes we know City and to a lesser extent these days Chelsea spend big money, yes we know they have stronger squads than ours. But for me it always comes back to are WE as in Arsenal FC doing enough to be competitive on the field.

The assumption you made with your analogy was that we have rich owners that are not giving Wenger a budget to work with. How do you know what his budget is? If anything, the noises coming out of the camp have been that Wenger has a good financial budget and is not using it.

Nail on head here!

[Özim]

Where were they before Abramovic and that Sheikh fella came along?

Chelsea we're 2nd or 3rd I think, they were a pretty decent side by all intents and purposes. Mourinho elevated them to a new level.

[Niall_Quinn]

This argument is getting crazy.

The chavs and gypos spend whereas our owners don't. Therefore our lack of performance can be explained in that context and Wenger's performance can be made respectable. This is like saying we lost the game because we stayed in bed, therefore the other team had an unfair advantage and our team can be excused as a result.

Yes we know our "investors" don't spend on the team. Another fuck-up, bringing in precisely the wrong people, something Wenger was deeply involved in and even boasts about when he rattles on about sustainability". The Sustainability Cup

Our owners are a fuck-up. Our manager is happy they are a fuck-up, he doesn't even see them that way. He sees them as good for the game, the way the game should be, the "proper" way. In a normal business he'd be right. But football isn't a normal business and when it is run as such we get Arsenal, a club with zero ambition, in it not to win it but to make steady profits. That's not football. We can't be going around forgiving this fucked up approach and celebrating how well the manager has done when in fact we haven't even tried.

Our "investment" ran straight out the door in the wallets of the fuckers who put fuck-all in and scooped what must have been a 10,000% return. Not phased by that nasty lesson the manager turns around and says yes, let's get some more do-nothing cocksuckers in here so they can leech their way to another massive return. What sort of football man is Wenger to sit there and be happy with that?

I'm not saying let's bankrupt the club. But if those cunts are going to realise a 100% return, which looks very likely, then they ought to be kicking some of that back and the manager should be all over them demanding as much. Besides, kicking a bit back makes it more likely we can compete. And competing opens up the way for trophies and sponsorship and an increased global fan base. More money. Speculate to accumulate.

But no. Sustainability. We live within our means. Except for Stan and Arsene. They live like fucking kings on the back of all the cash sloshing around the place. Good for them. But don't tell me either bloke loves this club in a football sense. In a business sense, yes, what's not to love? But loving it in the way the fans love it. Fuck off. These guys are not one of us, they are one of "them".

All of them need to fuck off.

[Power n Glory]

Where were they before Abramovic and that Sheikh fella came along?

The general point is the wealth of our respective owners does not necessarily correlate with our spending power, which is what Zim seemed to imply.
It doesn't really matter how rich our owners are if they're leeches who just want to make a profit for themselves.

That's not what's at the heart of the debate. We're struggling to take advantage of a situation where we have more resources than the two clubs above us. It's irrelevant in regards to this season. Also, we're owned by two billionaires. That's a fact. Two billionaires that seem to hold Wenger up in high regard.

Question - do you think they'd deny Wenger funds if he requested more from their own pocket? If he kicked up a real stink and used his power and influence, would they really deny him? I problem I've had with Wenger for a long time is the way his ideas and thoughts seem to align with the owners. He fights more to protect their interests rather than the interests of the fans or his own. In fact, it's why I don't want him to here at Arsenal after he's done managing because I'd question his integrity even further. Championing a model that he directly profits from with he's done managing and awarded shares in the club. I don't think that's what's going on but I'd be highly suspicious if he to take a seat upstairs one day.

[Özim]

That's a stupid argument. You know why.

I'm not so sure, Wenger has clearly shown over the years a reluctance to spend and he's even said in the past if you gave him 100 million he'd hand it back, to the theory that we can't spend big money is unfounded as it's never been put to the test, even though I agree our billionaires most likely won't pay up like Abrahmovic.

We do however have a fair fortune we haven't spent because Wenger won't, if we used that we'd most likely be closer to the title and CL.

Either way Wenger offers value for money, he never demands more money and it suits them as well, in the end though we sold out to the two billionaires and perhaps we should have questioned them more or got some guarantees and perhaps known more about their expectations on the sporting side.

[selassie]

I think that's valid and I agree we haven't made the most of the resources we do have.
But to suggest the billionaires haven't had a massive impact over the last decade is ridiculous.
And to suggest that the wealth of our owner relative to other owners means we have the same resources available as other clubs make no sense.
It doesn't matter how much money our owner has, only how much he is willing to make available to us.

There is no question they have had an impact and it has made it a lot more difficult for other teams to challenge and win the domestic trophies but no amount of spending from the dopers can legislate for the recurring issues we have seen at Arsenal over the past 10 years.

I'm not suggesting we have the budget of the dopers to spend on new players, but I would be extremely surprised if we didn't have a much bigger budget than what Wenger is spending, all the evidence points towards Wenger being the one who isn't willing to spend to rectify the issues in the team.

[Letters]

Chelsea we're 2nd or 3rd I think, they were a pretty decent side by all intents and purposes. Mourinho elevated them to a new level.

Nope, 4th. 16 points away from champions Utd.
The 3 seasons before that:
6th
6th
5th
So yeah, they were a decent side but they hadn't won the league since 1955 and didn't look like they were going to any time soon.
And yes, Mourinho bought them the league. Well done him.
As always he left a complete car crash behind recently, how incompetent do you have to be to have the champions scrapping around near the relegation zone?

[Özim]

But no. Sustainability. We live within our means. Except for Stan and Arsene. They live like fucking kings on the back of all the cash sloshing around the place. Good for them. But don't tell me either bloke loves this club in a football sense. In a business sense, yes, what's not to love? But loving it in the way the fans love it. Fuck off. These guys are not one of us, they are one of "them".

Totally agree, we know Kroenke doesn't give a toss about the club, nor does he care about football, getting rid of Dein a guy who clearly loved football was a bg mistake in that respect, we now have an owner and a manager who put football a distant 2nd.

As for Wenger, I agree he doesn't love the club in a football sense the way it should be loved, he has no respect for the fans and see's finances as the priority, to him we're winners because we're sustainable and in the end he picks up his 8 million a year pay cheque and doesn't ask if he's offering value for money because to him it's a gimme.

A man that loves a football club doesn't go home with 8 million in his hand happy when he hasn't delivered success on the pitch.