Who Will Win The League - 2

[Niall_Quinn]

Let's not kid ourselves. We are £150mill - £200mill away from a squad that can compete at the very top level. But when you spread investment like that over a 5 year period it doesn't look nearly as daunting and if players had been brought in as they were needed we'd have steadily become more competitive. Who's to say we wouldn't have gained all that £200mill back in increased revenues based on increased ambition?

But Wenger sees it differently. Everyone else is wrong, he's right. And you know what - HE PROBABLY IS RIGHT! Just like I'm 100% correct when I say tax is theft. But does that mean I won't be paying my taxes? You play the game as it is presented to you at any given time. Buck the system without working to change the system and you lose while everyone around you just gets on with it. And if you are trying to change the system then don't be so fucking dumb and rely on UEFA to do it for you. Wenger's efforts so far appear to be endlessly moaning about the chavs and the gypos. That'll teach them.

In football money talks. Wenger doesn't like this. I don't like it either. I'm not sure any genuine fan likes it. But until something is done to change the reality then there's no point screaming about injustice while you hack your own nose off to spite your face. And isn't it bloody convenient our "moral" approach to all this is very lucrative for the few and very expensive for the many? Oh what a fucking surprise!

[Letters]

That's not what's at the heart of the debate.

I don't know what you mean by 'the debate'. I was responding directly to Zim's assertion that:

we have more similar or more resources as we're owned by two billionaires, one of which of whom is richer than the Russian at Chelsea.

That just doesn't follow. How rich our owners are is irrelevant unless they're willing to put their considerable fortune at our disposal as Abramovic has done with Chelsea.

Whether we're making the most of the resources we do have is a different point. Would they deny him? It seems to me they're taking out from the club, not putting in. So I'd say yes, they probably would if Wenger wanted to go mental in the transfer market a la Chelsea or City. I don't think they'd put their money in to do that.

[Özim]

Would they deny him? It seems to me they're taking out from the club, not putting in. So I'd say yes, they probably would if Wenger wanted to go mental in the transfer market a la Chelsea or City. I don't think they'd put their money in to do that.

Maybe, however Wenger probably mesmerised them with his methodolgy of delivering maximum profits with minimum spend and minimum success.

He was here long before they arrived and we all know about his financial prudence it's clear they love the guy, he's probably fed them a load of stats about the merit of just coming 4th and qualifying for the CL without spending and it's easy to see why someone not interested and with no knowledge of football might buy into this methodology. After a number of years of this they're probably happy with the business model and have no real incentive to change, especially with a manager not interested in changing things at the helm who isn't going to ask them for any money.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't know what you mean by 'the debate'. I was responding directly to Zim's assertion that:


That just doesn't follow. How rich our owners are is irrelevant unless they're willing to put their considerable fortune at our disposal as Abramovic has done with Chelsea.

Whether we're making the most of the resources we do have is a different point. Would they deny him? It seems to me they're taking out from the club, not putting in. So I'd say yes, they probably would if Wenger wanted to go mental in the transfer market a la Chelsea or City. I don't think they'd put their money in to do that.

By "go mental" do you mean not being the only manager in Europe who didn't sign an outfield player because in his crazy little mind he thought this squad was already good enough?

Why is it always pushed to the extreme? We spend nothing because the only alternative would be spending like the chavs and the gypos? Nothing in between? Like a decent midfielder or striker? Would it have been "mental" to go into this season properly prepared to make a serious challenge? And it's not just this season, it's every bloody season. Again, a massive convenience. Coincidental of course.

[Letters]

I'm not so sure, Wenger has clearly shown over the years a reluctance to spend and he's even said in the past if you gave him 100 million he'd hand it back, to the theory that we can't spend big money is unfounded as it's never been put to the test, even though I agree our billionaires most likely won't pay up like Abrahmovic.

We do however have a fair fortune we haven't spent because Wenger won't, if we used that we'd most likely be closer to the title and CL.

Either way Wenger offers value for money, he never demands more money and it suits them as well, in the end though we sold out to the two billionaires and perhaps we should have questioned them more or got some guarantees and perhaps known more about their expectations on the sporting side.

Pretty much agree with that, but the logic that wealth of owners correlates to available resources is flawed.
But anyway, we do have the resources to compete now, we have started spending folding money and while it's yielded some results it's increasingly clear that Wenger can't push us any further.

[Power n Glory]

I don't know what you mean by 'the debate'. I was responding directly to Zim's assertion that:


That just doesn't follow. How rich our owners are is irrelevant unless they're willing to put their considerable fortune at our disposal as Abramovic has done with Chelsea.

Whether we're making the most of the resources we do have is a different point. Would they deny him? It seems to me they're taking out from the club, not putting in. So I'd say yes, they probably would if Wenger wanted to go mental in the transfer market a la Chelsea or City. I don't think they'd put their money in to do that.

But do you honestly think Wenger has demanded more funding? Persistently each year? Given what Wenger has constantly said about our finances, do you think he's putting a case to them that we need to spend more? It's all well and good fans putting up a defence and explanation for our performances but I don't know if Wenger would agree with the defence.

[Letters]

By "go mental" do you mean not being the only manager in Europe who didn't sign an outfield player because in his crazy little mind he thought this squad was already good enough?

Why is it always pushed to the extreme? We spend nothing because the only alternative would be spending like the chavs and the gypos? Nothing in between? Like a decent midfielder or striker? Would it have been "mental" to go into this season properly prepared to make a serious challenge? And it's not just this season, it's every bloody season. Again, a massive convenience. Coincidental of course.

You don't think our squad enough to finish above Leicester? Our failure this year is not because our squad isn't good enough. Clearly a top striker would help but do you really need that to beat a depleted Utd side or Swansea at home, or Watford in the Cup? Let's not confuse two things. There was a time when the dopers were having a big impact and we couldn't compete (although we could have spent more). But we have spent pretty big in the last few years since the money has been available, our failure this year isn't because of frugality.

[Letters]

But do you honestly think Wenger has demanded more funding? Persistently each year? Given what Wenger has constantly said about our finances, do you think he's putting a case to them that we need to spend more? It's all well and good fans putting up a defence and explanation for our performances but I don't know if Wenger would agree with the defence.

I think Wenger thinks - and I agree with him, actually - that our long term ability to compete shouldn't rely on a sugar-daddy. So while people sneer at the morally superior cup, longer term I'd argue he's mostly taking the right approach.
Which isn't to say he has got everything right and there have been times when I agree he should have spent more.

[Marc Overmars]

By "go mental" do you mean not being the only manager in Europe who didn't sign an outfield player because in his crazy little mind he thought this squad was already good enough?

Why is it always pushed to the extreme? We spend nothing because the only alternative would be spending like the chavs and the gypos? Nothing in between? Like a decent midfielder or striker? Would it have been "mental" to go into this season properly prepared to make a serious challenge? And it's not just this season, it's every bloody season. Again, a massive convenience. Coincidental of course.

Yep. I've never heard any Arsenal fan advocate spending a truck load on whoever the hell is available, that's what City and Chelsea have done in the past and they've left a trail of waste behind. All we've ever wanted is to see is our resources maximised and problem areas in the team addressed before it's too late. Is there a difference between buying no one and buying everyone? Both to me represent incompetence. Though at least with the latter your assets are on the field where they might be able to make a difference, sod all is going to happen if money is sitting in the bank.

Wenger could easily have spent more last summer and in summers gone by, the trouble is he does the work of a Director of Football and a CEO as well. He should not be setting his own criteria on what represents value for money.

[Niall_Quinn]

You don't think our squad enough to finish above Leicester? Our failure this year is not because our squad isn't good enough. Clearly a top striker would help but do you really need that to beat a depleted Utd side or Swansea at home, or Watford in the Cup? Let's not confuse two things. There was a time when the dopers were having a big impact and we couldn't compete (although we could have spent more). But we have spent pretty big in the last few years since the money has been available, our failure this year isn't because of frugality.

First off, I was talking about winning the CL. Something that should be the first priority every season for a club this size. Let's not lose sight of the claims on which the back of a 100% ticket price increase has been built.

As for Leicester, well nobody knew in the summer they'd be top today. Back then we'd have been expecting to be fighting with the chavs, gypos and maybe the mancs. That, in addition to making a proper CL challenge, is what the squad should have been prepared for.

But as it stands, no, it appears we can't compete with Leicester. Not because the squad isn't good enough on paper, except in one key area that everyone except you-know-who easily identified, but because we have a shit manager. He's the reason for the fuck-up. His stupid team selections, non-tactics, negativity, fucked-up subs, crazy excuses and all the rest. Let's not forget he has many more weaknesses than his unwillingness to compete in the transfer market.