West Ham away (PL) Match Reaction Thread

[Marc Overmars]

Not so sure about that one!

I agree.

He's as deluded as they come. Actions speak louder the words and we have seen precious little from him to suggest he has seriously acknowledged the problems his teams have faced for many years now.

[mastermind84]

Gotta love internet psychologists.

[Kano]

That may be and I would buy that, but after 10 years of almost no success any normal person would have changed their methods and adapted to try and find the solution to our lack of success, the fact he hasn't points to a lack of desire to do so or a different perception of success.

Stubborness is understandable in the shorter term, but over a decade to not have succeeded and to stick to the same methodology suggests delusions or an indifference to success on the pitch in favour of success off it.

In addition he's not rectifying a problem to the best of his ability, he's choosing to withold spending in the hope something changes, for example injured players staying fit or the team miraculously improving without any real changes.

Like almost everything else on here, it comes down to perceptions. How frustrated you are with the manager, how your own logic system works and how you interpret the information at hand. There are lots of little divots and angles to approach this topic on but we'll all end up on whatever side suits our own demeanour I guess.

[Letters]

I don't for one minute believe he doesn't know what he's doing, I believe he values financial success above on the field success and that's how he measures his performance.

Nah, I wouldn't go that far. But he clearly won't ever put the club in financial peril for the sake of short term success (again, look at Dein's interview where he's candid about our finances during parts of the stadium move). But now the money is there and while he has started spending it on people like Ozil and Sanchez he should have done more last summer and it's cost us. I think he was right not to sign another Welbeck but he needed to land a big name striker and failed to. That's what has cost us, or one of the things, and while signing a top striker isn't like going down the shop for some milk, that's why he gets the big bucks.

[Özim]

Nah, I wouldn't go that far. But he clearly won't ever put the club in financial peril for the sake of short term success (again, look at Dein's interview where he's candid about our finances during parts of the stadium move). But now the money is there and while he has started spending it on people like Ozil and Sanchez he should have done more last summer and it's cost us. I think he was right not to sign another Welbeck but he needed to land a big name striker and failed to. That's what has cost us, or one of the things, and while signing a top striker isn't like going down the shop for some milk, that's why he gets the big bucks.

He doesn't need to put the club in financial peril at all, he just needs to spend on the players we need with the money we have.

I honestly don't see the proof that winning is everything to him, we've totally collapsed this season and he's really not appeared that bothered if I'm honest, last summer he had plenty of time and money to find someone, any other manager would have found someone if they'd had all summer, he signs just a keeper, that's not the actions of someone wanting to win everything after seeing his team fall short the previous year.

Every summer it's largely the same, 1 or 2 signings etc etc, not easy to find the players...why is that? Next summer of course is the Euro's so his excuse will be that players are with their countries and then that the price is inflated due to the Euro's etc etc, I can see what's going to happen, one or two signings who aren't what we need and don't improve the team the way it needs to be improved.

[Letters]

Yeah, again, whether he's bothered isn't in dispute. I've posted the proof, you continue to ignore it if you like.
Whether he's able to do anything about it is the key point.

And yes, he doesn't need to put us in financial peril now - that's why I'm judging him by different standards now to the ones when the stadium move required some belt tightening (again, the proof of that is in the Dein interview).

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

An interview with Dein is not definitive proof, he is advocating for Wenger so of course he's going to go on about how driven he is whether that's the case now or not.

I've also stated this malaise is also subconscious I don't believe Wenger is wilfully lacking intensity, but when he sees men over twenty years younger than him who are the trailblazers that he once was at the top of European football, a fixed belief that money dominates the sport and a job security that is unfitting for someone who has not won a top trophy for over a decade and then you see press conferences where he seems more resigned than angry and it really is not controversial to suggest that he's not as driven as he was between 2001 and 2005.

Does he still get frustrated when he doesn't win, would he love to win Arsenal another league title before he goes? I'm in no doubt that he does. But I honestly think the idea of leaving Arsenal without winning another league title is disappointing it wouldn't be devestating to him.

[Letters]

It might not be definitive proof but the insight from a man who knows him, worked with him for years and still sees him regularly surely has to be a better indicator than vague assertions from people like us who have never met him based on vague inferences from body language or things he says.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You also have to ask yourself what's logically the more likely?

And ask yourself, 8million a year contract, a board that is unfailingly supportive, not getting any younger and probably know you are a step behind the innovation of many much younger than you.....are you really going to be as driven as you were earlier on in your career?.

Especially when whatever else happens you can say you laid the groundwork and made it possible for any man that follows you to succeed?.

[Power n Glory]

He seems quite stubborn and principled. Again, look at Dein's comments about him not wanting to sign a player in a position where he already has an up and coming player whose development he doesn't want to stifle. It's admirable in a way but given how here today, gone tomorrow modern players are it's probably not the most pragmatic approach.

I think his desire to see players develop overrides logic sometimes. After all these years going without a trophy, I'm surprised he's still so patient and hasn't just gone for the title. He's in his final years as well so it's even more surprising. We'll never know for sure but I think development and seeing progress trumps silverware. I don't know. I just figure he must have a different pecking order when it comes to achievements and gains more satisfaction from development over silverware.