Match Reaction vs Sunderland (away)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

In the past when he's been under pressure, he's made threats in the press about joining Real Madrid. When Dein left, the story is he asked Dein if he should resign. We also heard about the FA Cup thing this year. I don't think he'd sign a new deal if it stayed like this. Also, the Board would be forced into a position if seats stay empty. Looks bad for the brand and sponsors.

Maybe but there is a difference between threats and following through with things

Its easy for him to say in Hindsight that he would have left if the club hadn't won the FA cup, but the thing is we did and therefore it becomes an empty statement

The same with the Dein thing, yes I also heard he offered to resign but I don't think for a second he'd have expected Dein to say anything other than "No, the club needs you". If he was serious about resigning he would have done it I think.

But as with many other things, we won't know until the time comes. My fear is that Wenger will just continue to use any protest by the fans as an excuse for poor results but then again if the bottom line is just their interest in their bottom line than as you say the sponsors may force their hand.

Don't you just wish it was 2017 already?.....well actually no it means i'll be a year older.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To me, I know he is likely to be here next season. My enjoyment comes from seeing the fans turn against him. I remember being in London in 2013 and talking to some Gooners on the train. They were all friendly till I told them that I wanted Wenger out.. they literally looked at me like I raped their cat. No logical reasoning or facts made sense to them. It was like I was speaking Bengali to them.. it gives me lots of pleasure to see these very fans turn against him.

I also take tremendous pleasure in seeing Wenger literally ruin his legacy one brick at a time. Why do I dislike him so much? Because to me, he has been trolling the fans for a decade.. many people's eyes have only just opened this season because of Leicester and Tottenham. Perhaps one of the main reasons I want Tottenham to finish above us (If Leicester wins the title).

Hmmm that doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever but if that's what makes you happy who am i to question it

I have always been more fluid in my opinion of Wenger, when things go bad he aggravates me immensely but ultimately i've been prepared to give him more time than I should, and actually considering there was nothing i could do to influence him being at the club one way or the other it was easier to make my peace with it.

I think now is different, even if for no other reason than his age.....i think anyone wanting him to stay seems a bit short termist...like they are putting off a decision that will have to be made sooner rather than later anyway.

I have no personal interest in seeing Wenger ruining his legacy, if he succeeds Arsenal succeeds it's as simple as that...it's the fact that he isn't succeeding that i want him to go.

[Power n Glory]

Watched the video of the press conference on YouTube and what he said about the home fans was unprovoked. He wasn't baited into saying that it just seemed like he a lot to get off his chest.

I don't think his ego would allow him to destroy all that he's built over the years. If he wants to leave with a sense of pride and achievement, I can't see him staying to watch things fall apart because of his own doing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No you are right it was unprovoked the question that was asked was about the team's form, he did have a dig at the fans group in a separate question as well.

The thing is I don't imagine him making such comments even a couple of years ago, now in reference to his ego it might mean he thinks I'm not going to stay when i'm not appreciated or it might make him dig his heels in and think i'm not the problem the fans are, my employers are happy with me and that's what matters.

It's hard to think that the latter would be a tenable position to take long term, but it would be hard to think that he'd turn on Arsenal fans the way he has.

[Munchies]

Seen these extra quotes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36172291

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger claims his commitment to the club helped secure the bank loans required to fund the Emirates Stadium.

Fans are set to protest this weekend after a disappointing season that has seen the Gunners' Premier League title challenge fade.

"When we built the stadium the banks demanded that I signed for five years," said the 66-year-old Frenchman.

"Do you want me to say how many clubs I turned down during that period?"


However, Wenger said his critics had gone "too far".

He added: "I did commit and I stayed, and under very difficult circumstances.

"So for me to come back and, on top of that, (critics) reproach me for not having won the championship during that period, it is a bit overboard."

[Niall_Quinn]

This is a critical time. If the media supports him they'll let this slide and it will all be forgotten once the stupidity of the transfer window commences (that's another crisis and maybe even a welcome one for Wenger this time around). But if the media decide to go with this then I think he might be done. It's plain enough to see he's delusional. Wrapped up in his own world. He has no facts, no valid excuses, nobody to blame considering just about everyone told him what was going to happen when he went into this season unprepared as usual. Everything he's saying is lame and more people are starting to see that. What will our ridiculous board do? Are they going to stick with this fantasist and expose their intentions for the club to even greater scrutiny? Because if Wenger starts taking serious flak then it won't be long before Kroenke gets the same heat and with his track record that isn't going to be pretty. I also imagine there are a ton of fans from his franchises over in the States who will be only to happy to chime in if a new front is opened in the UK against this greedy goodfornothing bastard. He might have to get rid of Wenger just to cover his own fat arse. We're about to see how far the support for Wenger goes.

[Letters]

Hmmm that doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever but if that's what makes you happy who am i to question it

I have always been more fluid in my opinion of Wenger, when things go bad he aggravates me immensely but ultimately i've been prepared to give him more time than I should, and actually considering there was nothing i could do to influence him being at the club one way or the other it was easier to make my peace with it.

I think now is different, even if for no other reason than his age.....i think anyone wanting him to stay seems a bit short termist...like they are putting off a decision that will have to be made sooner rather than later anyway.

I have no personal interest in seeing Wenger ruining his legacy, if he succeeds Arsenal succeeds it's as simple as that...it's the fact that he isn't succeeding that i want him to go.

I find FYs comments bizarre. Troubling, actually. He seems to feel about Wenger how I feel about Mourinho - and I do recognise that my almost visceral dislike of him is unhealthy.
The 'last decade' argument is lazy and simplistic, it doesn't take into account how our (literal) fortunes have changed in the last few years. And yes, the (relative) lack of money prior to that doesn't absolve Wenger of blame but it does mitigate it somewhat. The last few years the money has been there to compete with anyone so we should judge him by different standards.
The first year we won the FA Cup. No serious title challenge but it finally got that monkey off our back and gave us hope of greater things to come. The start of last season was a car crash, we were out of the title race before the first bend. Wenger should probably have been sacked for that but we did at least get it together, easily finish top 3 and retained the FA Cup. And some of the wins in big games or against teams we traditionally struggle again did give some cause for hope.
FY has accused me of getting too excited by 'a few wins', but it wasn't just a few wins. We were calendar year champions in 2015. I'm not claiming that as a trophy but it does demonstrate a long run of form good enough to seriously challenge for a title. IMO there was an argument to give Wenger once last chance at the title and it's been a car crash. So yes, he should go. But the worst you can say about him is he's lost it and is no longer able to compete at the top level. But there's no doubt in my mind that he has always done what he thinks is best for the club, both short and long term.
I can understand fans' anger and frustration at seeing yet another failure. I share some of that. I will never understand the level of hatred and vitriol aimed at Wenger though. Clough (who was, if anything, more arrogant than Wenger) lost it to the point where he ended up taking Forest down and I don't think he ever got this level of abuse. At worst Wenger has presided over us slipping from the best team to the 3rd or 4th best. Is that good enough, given expectation levels (which, remember, he has set - we never had these expectations from the club before Wenger)? No, it isn't. Does it deserve this level of abuse? I don't think so.

And yes, Wenger and Arsenal's fortunes are entirely entwined. Enjoying one implies enjoying both which demonstrates an unhealthy level of dislike for someone. It's a bit like enjoying watching your wife being raped because you dislike the person doing it so much and know it means you can see them put in prison. Bizarre.

[Globalgunner]

Rubbish
. What matters here is what is best for the club. Wenger clearly isnt that. The staus quo is what is best for him. Let him GTFO

[fakeyank]

I find FYs comments bizarre. Troubling, actually. He seems to feel about Wenger how I feel about Mourinho - and I do recognise that my almost visceral dislike of him is unhealthy.
The 'last decade' argument is lazy and simplistic, it doesn't take into account how our (literal) fortunes have changed in the last few years. And yes, the (relative) lack of money prior to that doesn't absolve Wenger of blame but it does mitigate it somewhat. The last few years the money has been there to compete with anyone so we should judge him by different standards.
The first year we won the FA Cup. No serious title challenge but it finally got that monkey off our back and gave us hope of greater things to come. The start of last season was a car crash, we were out of the title race before the first bend. Wenger should probably have been sacked for that but we did at least get it together, easily finish top 3 and retained the FA Cup. And some of the wins in big games or against teams we traditionally struggle again did give some cause for hope.
FY has accused me of getting too excited by 'a few wins', but it wasn't just a few wins. We were calendar year champions in 2015. I'm not claiming that as a trophy but it does demonstrate a long run of form good enough to seriously challenge for a title. IMO there was an argument to give Wenger once last chance at the title and it's been a car crash. So yes, he should go. But the worst you can say about him is he's lost it and is no longer able to compete at the top level. But there's no doubt in my mind that he has always done what he thinks is best for the club, both short and long term.
I can understand fans' anger and frustration at seeing yet another failure. I share some of that. I will never understand the level of hatred and vitriol aimed at Wenger though. Clough (who was, if anything, more arrogant than Wenger) lost it to the point where he ended up taking Forest down and I don't think he ever got this level of abuse. At worst Wenger has presided over us slipping from the best team to the 3rd or 4th best. Is that good enough, given expectation levels (which, remember, he has set - we never had these expectations from the club before Wenger)? No, it isn't. Does it deserve this level of abuse? I don't think so.

And yes, Wenger and Arsenal's fortunes are entirely entwined. Enjoying one implies enjoying both which demonstrates an unhealthy level of dislike for someone. It's a bit like enjoying watching your wife being raped because you dislike the person doing it so much and know it means you can see them put in prison. Bizarre.

Last decade argument is not simplistic tbh. I hate pulling the 'I played football professionally card' but I'll pull it now... I have played at a semi-professional to a professional level until 25 (when I tore my ACL) and it was clear as daylight to anyone who has played under any sort of sane tactics that Wenger was not the right manager for Arsenal or any top club. He is just not at a top level to make sane decisions and completely lacks the ability to motivate and energize a team.

I posted in another thread about a match where his midfield 4 were Diaby, Fabregas, Denilson and Song. I am sorry but that sort of shit is beyond stupid. And it was not only that game.. we have seen some extremely bizzare and awkward substitutions, tactics and signings game after game, year after year. Kim Kallstrom is one such example, WTF was that about? How about Bendtner playing on the wings or Eduardo playing on the wings? How about being susceptible to set pieces for ages and yet not doing anything to mitigate those risks? None of these have anything to do with money.

Some Arsenal fans who watched the above nonsense plus many others knew that he needs to go long back. There were many who just chose to see his achievements till 2004 and the supposed lack of money as reasons for him not succeeding. To me, it was not about money... Sure, if we had the revenues like we have today, we may have secured 4th easily in seasons we struggled to get 4th or may be secured 3rd easily, but Wenger is so stubborn and deluded that we wouldnt have challenged for the title. You (Letters) and many others are just seeing the light of the day this season because Leicester and Spurs are above us... Some of us saw it ages ago and its possibly because some of us understand the game better OR because we are the progeny of Nostradamus or both.

Your question about vitriol... its because we have been frustrated and given up on Wenger for over 6 years. You, along with many Arsenal fans have only started to realize that Wenger cannot cut it as a top manager this season. You go through 6 years of this and I am sure the vitriol will just flow out from you as well. Hopefully we dont have to endure 6 more years of the dinosaur.. if you end up being like me after 6 years, I dread to think what'll happen to me!!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My point was, what actually tangibly does it matter if you thought Wenger should go six years ago or decided it as a result of this season?.

I have wanted Wenger to go since 2011, because long term I didn't think he was the man to take us forward but at the same time it's just an opinion it doesn't make me any more or less analytical than someone who has reached that conclusion now. In that time I have accepted his stewardship because it didn't seem likely that he was going anywhere.

You see it on social media, fans who want him to stay who although in the minority think fans who want him gone are stupid and entitled and fans who are as strong in their opinion on the manager as you think anyone who hasn't wanted the manager gone for years are stupid.

Logically the longer we've gone without challenging for the league there were always going to be more people calling for him to go, so I'm not sure in your position I'd see it so much as a vindication of your views more a logically necessary outcome.

And despite it all, wanting him to fail I don't get, cutting off your nose to spite your face I call that.