Match Reaction vs Sunderland (away)

[Power n Glory]

I find FYs comments bizarre. Troubling, actually. He seems to feel about Wenger how I feel about Mourinho - and I do recognise that my almost visceral dislike of him is unhealthy.
The 'last decade' argument is lazy and simplistic, it doesn't take into account how our (literal) fortunes have changed in the last few years. And yes, the (relative) lack of money prior to that doesn't absolve Wenger of blame but it does mitigate it somewhat. The last few years the money has been there to compete with anyone so we should judge him by different standards.
The first year we won the FA Cup. No serious title challenge but it finally got that monkey off our back and gave us hope of greater things to come. The start of last season was a car crash, we were out of the title race before the first bend. Wenger should probably have been sacked for that but we did at least get it together, easily finish top 3 and retained the FA Cup. And some of the wins in big games or against teams we traditionally struggle again did give some cause for hope.
FY has accused me of getting too excited by 'a few wins', but it wasn't just a few wins. We were calendar year champions in 2015. I'm not claiming that as a trophy but it does demonstrate a long run of form good enough to seriously challenge for a title. IMO there was an argument to give Wenger once last chance at the title and it's been a car crash. So yes, he should go. But the worst you can say about him is he's lost it and is no longer able to compete at the top level. But there's no doubt in my mind that he has always done what he thinks is best for the club, both short and long term.
I can understand fans' anger and frustration at seeing yet another failure. I share some of that. I will never understand the level of hatred and vitriol aimed at Wenger though. Clough (who was, if anything, more arrogant than Wenger) lost it to the point where he ended up taking Forest down and I don't think he ever got this level of abuse. At worst Wenger has presided over us slipping from the best team to the 3rd or 4th best. Is that good enough, given expectation levels (which, remember, he has set - we never had these expectations from the club before Wenger)? No, it isn't. Does it deserve this level of abuse? I don't think so.

And yes, Wenger and Arsenal's fortunes are entirely entwined. Enjoying one implies enjoying both which demonstrates an unhealthy level of dislike for someone. It's a bit like enjoying watching your wife being raped because you dislike the person doing it so much and know it means you can see them put in prison. Bizarre.

You've said this a thousand times already. You still can't understand the reactions from fans even after his press conference? What do you make of what he said?

Also, the last decade argument is far from lazy. I think this season has really exposed him and his character. If he's able to, he'll look for every excuse and shift the blame whenever possible. Any stat to make his failings look a lot better than what they are. He misleads with information. Example, when the season ticket prices went up, he said we needed to stay competitive with teams like Chelsea. Rubbish. That was an attempt to manipulate the fans. The stuff about having to sell our players is misleading as well. He presents that info as if it was a decision forced on him from above to try and stay a float. Dig deeper and it's mostly players tired of not winning and engineering a move away from the club themselves.

So many more examples I could come up with. Most have had these gripes about him for ages. He's always set the Boards interest above the fans even though he wields so much influence. There were debates on here for years about Wenger's position at the club and how powerful he really was/is. It took a long time for some to accept he had this level of influence over the Board. When we weren't buying players, the thought was they were taking money from him. He just said in that press conference that Stan has never denied him funds and he works with much freedom. As seen this year with the summer transfer fiasco, Wenger can be quite delusional and naive about what we're capable of as a team and leaves us short going into a season. It's way too simplistic to give him a blank slate and ignore all what's happened in the past.

[Maestro]

He's a cunt

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Seen these extra quotes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36172291

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger claims his commitment to the club helped secure the bank loans required to fund the Emirates Stadium.

Fans are set to protest this weekend after a disappointing season that has seen the Gunners' Premier League title challenge fade.

"When we built the stadium the banks demanded that I signed for five years," said the 66-year-old Frenchman.

"Do you want me to say how many clubs I turned down during that period?"


However, Wenger said his critics had gone "too far".

He added: "I did commit and I stayed, and under very difficult circumstances.

"So for me to come back and, on top of that, (critics) reproach me for not having won the championship during that period, it is a bit overboard."

Arsene Wonga indeed. The bankers demanded he stayed for five years?

He's contradicting himself all the time - just fecking stop you lunatic!

[Letters]

Last decade argument is not simplistic tbh. I hate pulling the 'I played football professionally card' but I'll pull it now... I have played at a semi-professional to a professional level until 25 (when I tore my ACL) and it was clear as daylight to anyone who has played under any sort of sane tactics that Wenger was not the right manager for Arsenal or any top club. He is just not at a top level to make sane decisions and completely lacks the ability to motivate and energize a team.

I posted in another thread about a match where his midfield 4 were Diaby, Fabregas, Denilson and Song. I am sorry but that sort of shit is beyond stupid. And it was not only that game.. we have seen some extremely bizzare and awkward substitutions, tactics and signings game after game, year after year. Kim Kallstrom is one such example, WTF was that about? How about Bendtner playing on the wings or Eduardo playing on the wings? How about being susceptible to set pieces for ages and yet not doing anything to mitigate those risks? None of these have anything to do with money.

Some Arsenal fans who watched the above nonsense plus many others knew that he needs to go long back. There were many who just chose to see his achievements till 2004 and the supposed lack of money as reasons for him not succeeding. To me, it was not about money... Sure, if we had the revenues like we have today, we may have secured 4th easily in seasons we struggled to get 4th or may be secured 3rd easily, but Wenger is so stubborn and deluded that we wouldnt have challenged for the title. You (Letters) and many others are just seeing the light of the day this season because Leicester and Spurs are above us... Some of us saw it ages ago and its possibly because some of us understand the game better OR because we are the progeny of Nostradamus or both.

Your question about vitriol... its because we have been frustrated and given up on Wenger for over 6 years. You, along with many Arsenal fans have only started to realize that Wenger cannot cut it as a top manager this season. You go through 6 years of this and I am sure the vitriol will just flow out from you as well. Hopefully we dont have to endure 6 more years of the dinosaur.. if you end up being like me after 6 years, I dread to think what'll happen to me!!

The 'I played football professionally card' isn't a card at all, tbh. All of the pundits we see on TV have played at the very top level - certainly at a much higher level than you - and a lot of them spout utter bullshit most of the time. Playing at a certain level does not make your opinions are any more valid than mine or anyone else's.

I agree with some of the things you say about Wenger but he was never a great tactician or motivator. He hasn't suddenly developed those flaws. They were simply masked previously by his strengths - those strengths are now no longer enough now everyone else has caught up and overtaken us when it comes to training methods and scouting networks. Many of the people now patting themselves on the back about being right all along about Wenger also confidently predicted we'd never win any trophy under him again (after the Birmingham debacle I thought that, actually). Now of course they're just changing it to 'major' trophy and claiming the FA Cup isn't one which is a pointless debate as it's entirely subjective and there is no objective measure of 'major'. My 2 cents is that of course it's the 3rd priority, trophy wise (shall I write the '4th place trophy' WUM riposte for you now to save you the effort?), as we go into a season, but you wouldn't be having an open top bus parade for the league Cup and you wouldn't get major TV channels giving so much coverage to any other domestic cup final. It isn't what it was, but it still has a certain prestige. But anyway, as I said it gave some cause for hope - as did some of the victories in the last couple of seasons.

The lack of money was a factor in us not succeeding. Since we last won the league Liverpool have finished above us a few times - and they're not short of a penny or two - but most seasons all the clubs who finished above us were the ones able to out-spend us. Would we have won some league titles otherwise? We'll never know, but we'd have had a much better chance had City and Chelsea not bought up 6 titles between them in that period.

My opinion about persisting with Wenger has not changed because of who are above us. I said early season that I'd support him while we were challenging for the title. I never said anything about that being conditional on us finishing above certain teams. I've snapped with Wenger because this was the year we should have pushed on and at least challenged properly for the title. Well OK, actually last year was that year but the FA Cup mitigated our failure to do so somewhat and IMO made a case for giving him one more shot. Anyway, the Leicester result put us back in the race - and that was mid-Feb, let's not pretend it's been a car crash all season. It was the 8 games after that which broke me, it saw us tumble out of the CL (which, given who we were playing, I could live with had we fared better in other games in that run), the FA Cup (very limp display against a not very good side) and the title race. That's why I think he should go. We have the resources to compete and the players to compete and we're not. I don't care who the teams above us are (well, I do care Spurs are above us but it's not a factor in my opinion about Wenger).

The last couple of years have been pretty decent. FA Cup and 4th then FA Cup and 3rd. If you think that's 2 bad seasons then, again, I urge you to think about where that level of expectation has come from. It is entirely from Wenger's time with us. But we moved to the stadium to compete with the very best. I can accept some period of belt tightening and it came right at the time when the billionaires were having the biggest impact. But now we have the resources to compete properly, we're not and that's why he should go.

But we're still one of the best teams in the country, we've got enough money to sign the players we need to push us on and the fanbase and stadium to sustain it. A lot of that is down to Wenger so as frustrated as you are with him I'll never understand the level of hatred you have for him, much less actual enjoyment at his failure. That's just bizarre. If he'd sold all our best players, pocketed the cash, got us relegated and pissed off to a private island leaving behind a complete train wreck then I guess he would deserve this level of abuse but that's hardly the case. As I said at worst he's lost it and is no longer able to compete at the very top level. I think he'll leave us in pretty good shape for whoever takes over though. I do hope he goes soon because every year he's here will further tarnish his legacy (unless he does somehow get it together and win us a title although that seems increasingly unlikely). He needs to go but he's earned his bust at the Emirates, he's one of the most important figures in our modern history, I'd argue the most important, and I think in the long term that will be appreciated.

[Gooner23]

Arsene Wonga indeed. The bankers demanded he stayed for five years?

He's contradicting himself all the time - just fecking stop you lunatic!

Plus I think he did have the majority fan base support back through that period. The criticism is about what's happening now and in the last few years. He's totally missing the point.

[Marc Overmars]

I wish someone at the press conference had the balls to call him out, he needs to hear some home truths. He just doesn't get it and never will.

Bumbling idiot indeed. Actually no, bumbling doesn't really indicate how serious this is now, fucking idiot is about right.

[Letters]

How serious this is? Really?!

[Niall_Quinn]

How serious this is? Really?!

Yes. Millions of pounds taken under false pretences. Very serious indeed, although I doubt anyone will ever be prosecuted.

[Munchies]

£150 on printer ink



https://twitter.com/Memz_Dogi/with_replies

Respect to the Gooners taking a stand

I'd be there if I wasn't working today

---

@Memz_Dogi
So now I'm getting threats that if I show my face today at the stadium I'll be "chinned"



Fuck the Wenger defenders!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It might be better if it actually said what's wanted. 'Time for change' is quite vague; is it Wenger out, board out, Kroenke out, less Gunnersaurus, or more 'Wonder of You' perhaps?