Match Reaction vs Sunderland (away)

[Munchies]

It might be better if it actually said what's wanted. 'Time for change' is quite vague; is it Wenger out, board out, Kroenke out, less Gunnersaurus, or more 'Wonder of You' perhaps?

I guess that's also a good thing, we just want change to happen!

We want the club to change as it is existing right now.




It's getting coverage!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm not sure that is how it will be portrayed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It might be better if it actually said what's wanted. 'Time for change' is quite vague; is it Wenger out, board out, Kroenke out, less Gunnersaurus, or more 'Wonder of You' perhaps?

I think that it's intentionally vague because fans still can't agree on what is the problem and what is the solution

Whilst the majority do want Wenger gone, for some it's still a step too far etc.

Therefore I think it was agreed that a sweeping statement that everyone could get behind was needed. The only people opposed are people who believe like AW that the fans are wholly responsible. Positively Arsenal a tweeter I try and debate with until he makes it clear that anyone who thinks Wenger is not brilliant is scum actually posted that fans weren't fit to wipe Wengers arse....I mean where do you come up with a mindset like that.

[Letters]

Interestingly I was talking to a Gooner colleague last week and he's still in the #WengerIn camp. They're an endangered species.
His take is that with the same board it won't change much, I don't agree. With our squad we should be doing better, I think another manager - bot not just ANY other manager - would get better out of them.

[Kano]

Last decade argument is not simplistic tbh. I hate pulling the 'I played football professionally card' but I'll pull it now... I have played at a semi-professional to a professional level until 25 (when I tore my ACL) and it was clear as daylight to anyone who has played under any sort of sane tactics that Wenger was not the right manager for Arsenal or any top club. He is just not at a top level to make sane decisions and completely lacks the ability to motivate and energize a team.

I posted in another thread about a match where his midfield 4 were Diaby, Fabregas, Denilson and Song. I am sorry but that sort of shit is beyond stupid. And it was not only that game.. we have seen some extremely bizzare and awkward substitutions, tactics and signings game after game, year after year. Kim Kallstrom is one such example, WTF was that about? How about Bendtner playing on the wings or Eduardo playing on the wings? How about being susceptible to set pieces for ages and yet not doing anything to mitigate those risks? None of these have anything to do with money.

Some Arsenal fans who watched the above nonsense plus many others knew that he needs to go long back. There were many who just chose to see his achievements till 2004 and the supposed lack of money as reasons for him not succeeding. To me, it was not about money... Sure, if we had the revenues like we have today, we may have secured 4th easily in seasons we struggled to get 4th or may be secured 3rd easily, but Wenger is so stubborn and deluded that we wouldnt have challenged for the title. You (Letters) and many others are just seeing the light of the day this season because Leicester and Spurs are above us... Some of us saw it ages ago and its possibly because some of us understand the game better OR because we are the progeny of Nostradamus or both.

Your question about vitriol... its because we have been frustrated and given up on Wenger for over 6 years. You, along with many Arsenal fans have only started to realize that Wenger cannot cut it as a top manager this season. You go through 6 years of this and I am sure the vitriol will just flow out from you as well. Hopefully we dont have to endure 6 more years of the dinosaur.. if you end up being like me after 6 years, I dread to think what'll happen to me!!

Really it's down to lack of control of your own emotions. The laziest thing in the world we all do at times is to pin the reason for our ongoing anger onto the cause of it. Sure, we can react to things but when we let it fester, then it it comes down to ourselves to put a lid on it, mostly for the sake of our own sanity. Sitting there getting pissed off, then angry, then mad while sitting, watching and hoping the cause (not the reason, that's a different thing) of your ire tears itself apart says more about you than anything else. Wenger isn't the reason you've been angry for six years, that's because you haven't found a way to manage it. If something is that toxic for you, you get the hell away from it or reassess how you deal with it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think the general consensus is that the man who comes after Wenger won't be allowed a free reign and will be accountable to Ivan Gazidis in the way Wenger is not.

That's the issue with Wenger, he says all the time he questions himself but he won't allow anyone else to. I think if he did he'd have been much better off in the last few years and wouldn't have caused this split between himself and the fan base.
As it is he's a demagogue wading through water up to his knees.

It's so unlikely now that this will end amicably and he's got no one to blame but himself, should have been different.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Really it's down to lack of control of your own emotions. The laziest thing in the world we all do at times is to pin the reason for our ongoing anger onto the cause of it. Sure, we can react to things but when we let it fester, then it it comes down to ourselves to put a lid on it, mostly for the sake of our own sanity. Sitting there getting pissed off, then angry, then mad while sitting, watching and hoping the cause (not the reason, that's a different thing) of your ire tears itself apart says more about you than anything else. Wenger isn't the reason you've been angry for six years, that's because you haven't found a way to manage it. If something is that toxic for you, you get the hell away from it or reassess how you deal with it.

Pretty much. I'm angry with Wengers comments yesterday, anger out of disappointment. Anger that he doesn't care that he is destroying his own legacy, that's not something I can get satisfaction out of.
I have largely wanted him to go for five years, but there's no question I wanted him to go with our praise ringing in his ears.

[selassie]

I think the general consensus is that the man who comes after Wenger won't be allowed a free reign and will be accountable to Ivan Gazidis in the way Wenger is not.

That's the issue with Wenger, he says all the time he questions himself but he won't allow anyone else to. I think if he did he'd have been much better off in the last few years and wouldn't have caused this split between himself and the fan base.
As it is he's a demagogue wading through water up to his knees.

It's so unlikely now that this will end amicably and he's got no one to blame but himself, should have been different.

I think the damage is irrepairable now because Wenger has got personal, it's probably a defence in his mind to what he perceives as unjust criticism.

In some ways Wenger has dug himself deep into a whole and truly exposed himself because he's actually been quite open about what he can and can't do, in the presser he pretty much said that he's accountable to nobody and if he requires funds then he can get them. Of course his unwillingness to strengthen the team isn't the only issue fans have with him, the are a whole host of other issues but the fact that he has come out and said that confirms what many thought.

The press conference was quite interesting because initially he said he understands the frustration but then halfway through and unprovoked might i add he went into a passioned attack (you cant call it a defence) of the fans and former players who had been making comments/protests in the media/on social media/at the stadium.

It's got really ugly now IMO.

[Dicks and chicks]

Interestingly I was talking to a Gooner colleague last week and he's still in the #WengerIn camp. They're an endangered species.
His take is that with the same board it won't change much, I don't agree. With our squad we should be doing better, I think another manager - bot not just ANY other manager - would get better out of them.

Owen in Coyle is not just any manager, he's owen coyle.

[Power n Glory]

I think the damage is irrepairable now because Wenger has got personal, it's probably a defence in his mind to what he perceives as unjust criticism.

In some ways Wenger has dug himself deep into a whole and truly exposed himself because he's actually been quite open about what he can and can't do, in the presser he pretty much said that he's accountable to nobody and if he requires funds then he can get them. Of course his unwillingness to strengthen the team isn't the only issue fans have with him, the are a whole host of other issues but the fact that he has come out and said that confirms what many thought.

The press conference was quite interesting because initially he said he understands the frustration but then halfway through and unprovoked might i add he went into a passioned attack (you cant call it a defence) of the fans and former players who had been making comments/protests in the media/on social media/at the stadium.

It's got really ugly now IMO.

Stupidity and arrogance from Wenger.