Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Power n Glory]

I think in fairness i think what i've said has been misconstrued. All this nonsense about us not being able to compete financially means that whoever is manager the purse strings will be tight. I think there is an argument now to be made that us not matching the selling club's valuation for players we have wanted, is not entirerly evidence of Wenger prevaricating....but the club as a whole being tight.
I'm not trying to exonerate Wenger's poor squad and match planning and his inability to motivate his players during difficult periods.

If the club are tight overall, how was a fee agreed for Xhaka at that amount for an unknown player?

[selassie]

We don’t have that answer. There are managers out there able to get more out of a smaller budget compared to what Wenger is given. Also, as said yesterday, the board have given Wenger the greenlight to spend £33m on an unknown player at a small club and seem to have no problem dishing out big wages for players that haven’t proven themselves to be worthy of that amount. Why? It’s a no brainer that we can’t spend £70m - £100m on a player like some other clubs. But I wouldn’t be so quick to draw conclusions about what’s really going on.

During 2013/14 season when we bought Ozil, we clearly needed a striker but bought Kimi with the broken back for cheap during the January transfer window. You came to the conclusions that we had no money left to spend. Apparently, we had spent everything on Ozil and couldn’t afford a striker during the winter window. It seemed like the logical conclusion since Wenger didn’t spend in an area we clearly needed the help. The next window arrives and we spend big. Was it close to £100m? Sanchez, Chambers, Ospina, Welbeck, Debuchy…so the conclusion you drew back then went out the window. So we’re at a similar point again and we just have to wait to see what happens. The window hasn’t closed and we certainly don’t know what this club would look like under a new manager. We don't know if the Board have tightened their belt or they're just backing the manager in public and playing down expectations a little.

Yeah I'm with you on this PnG. I personally think our budget and muscle or lack of it in the transfer market is somewhat blurred and difficult to work out due to the way we operate and conduct ourselves in the market. I think we operate this way deliberately and I believe the likes of Wenger and Gazidis fully know what they are doing when sending out the mixed messages about our financial status.

Wenger operates in the market very much in the way he wants to set his team out, he's not pragmatic and doesn't recruit for the needs of the team IMO. As you have stated, he's happy to throw down 35million on a deep lying playmaker yet seems reluctant to spend the big money in the real areas of need, CB and/or Striker. He knows what he's doing, he's buying players that he want who he believes will fit into his philosophy, possession based tiki

I can't claim to have any knowledge of our budget and accept we can't spend like the dopers but I've thought for some time now that Wenger is mismanaging the squad in terms of what it needs and where it needs investment.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If the club are tight overall, how was a fee agreed for Xhaka at that amount for an unknown player?

I don't think he's as unknown as we are making out.....plus they seem to operate under the idea that we make one marquee signing per summer of about 30-40 million and then fish around for the rest.

Plus I know it's a different board, but the club has always been tight it's like tradition. George Graham often found it was like getting blood out of a stone getting transfer funds, in hindsight the board was probably correct not to trust him with their money when he using it for bungs.

I do hold the view that the board and the manager share equal responsibility for what goes on at the club, and giving Wenger the responsibility they do is to disassociate themselves from him when it suits them

[Özim]

I don't think he's as unknown as we are making out.

Quite the opposite, some people are making out he's better known than he is, barely one person had heard of him on here, sure people may have known about him in Germany but it's to be expected as he plays there, he's not an International name and on that basis 33 million is a lot, especially for a position we weren't desperate fill and not being a marquee player in that the position he plays in isn't one of those considered to be the most valuable in the transfer market.

If Xhaka is worth 33 million then the prices we're seeing for other players isn't unreasonable at all. IMO price doesn't matter, he's a minor signing in anything but price, so so far we've only really made minor signings.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Quite the opposite, some people are making out he's better known than he is, barely one person had heard of him on here, sure people may have known about him in Germany but it's to be expected as he plays there, he's not an International name and on that basis 33 million is a lot, especially for a position we weren't desperate fill and not being a marquee player in that the position he plays in isn't one of those considered to be the most valuable in the transfer market.

If Xhaka is worth 33 million then the prices we're seeing for other players isn't unreasonable at all. IMO price doesn't matter, he's a minor signing in anything but price, so so far we've only really made minor signings.

a defensive midfielder? I think we've needed that as long as we've needed a striker. Elneny was only ever a stop gap measure especially with both Arteta and Flamini now gone (thank god).

In your opinion......that allows for the parameters to be shifted constantly to suit whatever point you want to make. I'd heard of Xhaka for at least two years both for Switzerland in the world cup and being pivotal in Moechengladbach qualifying for the Champions League. Just because he doesn't appear in your monthly copy of Match it's utterly daft to claim he is a minor signing.

Plus I haven't stated that the price tags for other players is unreasonable, I'm just saying the club is hesitant to shell out any kind of substantial money more than once in a summer transfer period regardless of the club's needs and Gazidis' ridiculous back tracking comments only reinforce that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Honestly i think you all suffer from cognitive dissonance, you all believe that we are being cheated by the board and the majority shareholder especially. And yet me trying to reinforce that by saying even when Wenger goes we've still got this big problem seems to be a big issue for people here.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think he's as unknown as we are making out.....plus they seem to operate under the idea that we make one marquee signing per summer of about 30-40 million and then fish around for the rest.

Plus I know it's a different board, but the club has always been tight it's like tradition. George Graham often found it was like getting blood out of a stone getting transfer funds, in hindsight the board was probably correct not to trust him with their money when he using it for bungs.

I do hold the view that the board and the manager share equal responsibility for what goes on at the club, and giving Wenger the responsibility they do is to disassociate themselves from him when it suits them

Very few had heard of him before we signed him and I doubt they'd have valued him above £20m before we signed him. Who do you think makes that final call on what the final fee is?

[Niall_Quinn]

We can and should be spending £70 - £100mill on a single player. We have the money, we just don't have the will. Other clubs speculate to accumulate. Utd spend money like water but they also claw in back at ever increasing rates. They are strengthening their brand despite dropping down the table. They know that Utd is a huge brand and if they drift into a small time mentality their brand will suffer as a result. So their thinking is simple. Drifting down the table due to shit managerial choices? Spend big. Do what is required to fix those problems. Yes, they are mired in debt. So what? It doesn't seem to affect them in any adverse way, does it? They can carry the debt because the future revenues support it and if it all comes crashing down tomorrow it will mean the whole system has gone down, not just them. So they are taking risks but balancing those risks. And despite their dodgy form over the last few seasons their fans are sitting there once again realistically imagining they can compete at the highest level. It's not pretty, but that's how football works these days.

Now look at us. A club that prides itself on zero risk, like a blue chip investment (which is precisely what the club has been turned into for the benefit of one man, btw). You have the CFO boasting about how we won't do what it takes to compete. How we won't be taking risks. He's like a bureaucrat from a grey city industry, far removed from the world of sport and entertainment. Supposedly he's an expert in both these latter fields. Well it doesn't show. And we have a manager who watches the market evolve around him and decides he doesn't like it - as if that will somehow change how things are. He won't play. So what does that mean for the club in relation to everyone else out there who plays and plays hard? We are sliding backwards. A nice fat balance sheet, sustainability bullshit coming out of our ears, but no prospects in terms of the supposed purpose of the business, being a competitive football team. That's negligence whichever way you dice it. Football is a form of monopoly, with a captive and almost endlessly inelastic demand. That's how they get away with it. In a normal industry these negligent incompetents would be out the door because you can't sustain a business for long if you pride yourself in making hugely expensive, minimal quality, cheapo component products that don't function as advertised and randomly blow up in your face.

In the end this is Wenger's fault. His lack of pride an ambition in an industry that is supposed to be driven by pride and ambition is shocking and it's all the fuel the owners need to keep their factory churning out overpriced tat. I can't envisage any other manager who would come here and tolerate it. Which is why Wenger has been around so long past his sell-by date. He's the only weirdo in football who is suited to the agenda of the owners. It's a match made in hell and I can't see it ending any time soon. We'll know he's on the way out when the world's next biggest no pride, no ambition loser is being linked with us. Maybe Nick Clegg could do the job.

[Niall_Quinn]

Quite the opposite, some people are making out he's better known than he is, barely one person had heard of him on here, sure people may have known about him in Germany but it's to be expected as he plays there, he's not an International name and on that basis 33 million is a lot, especially for a position we weren't desperate fill and not being a marquee player in that the position he plays in isn't one of those considered to be the most valuable in the transfer market.

If Xhaka is worth 33 million then the prices we're seeing for other players isn't unreasonable at all. IMO price doesn't matter, he's a minor signing in anything but price, so so far we've only really made minor signings.

Don't know about anyone else but I heard us being linked with him for almost 3 years. Certainly a player that Wenger has wanted for some time. Unfortunately I can guess why.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Very few had heard of him before we signed him and I doubt they'd have valued him above £20m before we signed him. Who do you think makes that final call on what the final fee is?

The fee for Xhaka is irrelevant, the overall transfer budget he is allocated to spend is not decided upon by Wenger. Are you suggesting we should have haggled with Moechengladbach for Xhaka?.....