Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Özim]

I doubt it, because it's all drifting down the American razzmatazz route, being there for the spectacle (or to see us make a spectacle of ourselves more like) is what is is increasingly becoming all about. Big stadiums, pumping anthems, big screens, a flood of advertising, pundits crawling around the place like an army of ants, spinning graphics, bouncing logos, money, money, money.

But shit football.

And nobody seems to care. It's like one of those big venue bands that can't sing and can't play, but wow, the stage effects were that good they distracted you for long enough to forget how lousy the main event was.

The stadiums will stay full, or mostly full. There are more than enough fools out there with money to be easily parted from.

As we saw last season that's the problem, there's a big group brainashed into being happy with what we have a living in fear that it might ever have to change, but what do we have to lose, sh*t football, being a 4th place loser and qualifying for a tournament we get humbled at the same stage every year, awful transfer activity and management, awful tactics, an injury crisis?

The club have done a great jon in that respect, convincing people that being losers is a great achievement and that any shift away from that could lead to possible relegation or doing a Leeds. It's embarassing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There's a reason for this, all other clubs have had to change manager and it takes a certain amount of time to adapt, moreover their aim is to win the title which invariably means taking more risk with signings etc not getting a top 4 slot which no big club would realistically care about long term, big clubs want to win, we're only interested in top 4, a big club with a small club mentality.

I'd prefer to come lower down in a couple seasons and then perhaps winning a major trophy then coming 4th and making up the numbers in the CL a competition which as well as containing winners, contains club like Arsenal who are only just interested in the money and not the of satisfaction success.

Except that's not what tends to happen, you have had instances where clubs come close to winning the title one season and then fall out of the top four the next season under the same manager.

[Özim]

Except that's not what tends to happen, you have had instances where clubs come close to winning the title one season and then fall out of the top four the next season under the same manager.

That does happen yes, on some occasions, usually because teams aren't as motivated when the season starts after winning the title for one reason or another, generally they pick up during the season however, but again I'd prefer this to this horrible top 4 slog which actually means nothing for me and brings no enjoyment whatsoever.

What Wenger offers has 0 appeal and is a non achievement in pure football terms.

[Letters]

That's his trademark line, "shifting the goalposts" he uses it everytime he disagrees with someone.

No, I say it every time you move the goalposts.
If I say it a lot it's because you do it constantly.

[Letters]

rather than a guy like Giroud who scores 20 in 7 games.

Making things up

[bignev]

So cutting past all the Internet scoring, we accept that Giroud isn't good enough to win us a major trophy.

He's not the world class striker we need, no. I've not said he is and neither has Letters from what I can see.

Do you think Wenger believes Giroud is good enough?

No he doesn't believe he is. Which is why he has said he wants to sign a new striker.

Do you think Wenger believes Giroud is good enough? Because if he does then he's precisely the incompetent fool he's been called. But what if he doesn't believe Giroud is good enough. That would make him a negligent fraud, wouldn't it?

No

A guy who claims to be a top manager and who pours his every minute into the club trying to win? That would be a lie, wouldn't it? So we have either an incompetent fool or a fraud and a liar. I actually think he's all of those things.

He's never claimed he's a top manager.

He's clearly not incompetent as we've discussed already.

I'm not sure what makes him a "fraud" to be honest. That's one of those things people call him on the internet during their vitriolic rants. It doesn't really make sense or add up.

A liar. Not sure what he has lied about to be honest.

What Wenger is, is stubborn and principled. He knows he needs a striker but not just any striker, he wants a top striker. Most of those are unavailable and the ones that are available don't represent value (in Wenger's eyes).

So then you have to look at the next best option. That's an up and coming striker who could become world class. This is where we're failing. I assume that Wenger also feels that most of these don't warrant their price tags either. Now in my eyes we have to pay the money for this type of striker - we don't have a choice about this. We can't go into the season with just Giroud as a striker.

I can predict what will happen now. We'll keep looking for a striker for the next few weeks and nothing will materialise. Towards the end of the window we'll make a bigger bid for a striker (Lacazette probably) and this will fail as they won't have time to replace him. Then we'll try and sign Mahrez to add something to our attack. This will also fail for the same reason. We'll end up with no one new attacking wise. You'll have a brain embolism from pure rage and i'll resign myself to another painful season.

[Letters]

On the basis the FA Cup was a prelude to a serious push for bigger honours. This is not difficult to understand at all, yet you struggle.

No, I don't struggle with that idea. That makes perfect sense and I, too, hoped it would be the start of greater things. It wasn't and that's why I think Wenger should be sacked. Retaining the FA Cup IMO bought him one last try but last season with all the other big boys imploding was a golden opportunity to finally win the title and we cocked it right up. So yes, he should be sacked.
But what doesn't make sense is the way you spent so much of last season saying it's '10 years of failure'. If you think that then you clearly regard the years post 2004 up till and including the first FA Cup win to have been ones of failure. To me that is a very simplistic. And given that you also now dismiss the FA Cup as a minor trophy it makes no sense for that one trophy after all those years of what you regard as failure to be happy with Wenger signing a new contract. So you clearly didn't regard them as an unmitigated failure 2 years ago, now you do. You have done a complete U turn, that's the bit that makes no sense.

Seriously though, how do you have a good word to say about this fraud after all this time?

Well, as discussed I think he should be sacked. Does that mean I think he's as bad as you make out? No. So yes, I'll defend him against a lot of the more extreme nonsense on here, people hammering him when he says things they basically agree with, all that nonsense. That doesn't mean I'm 'sucking his cock' and think he can do no wrong.

[Letters]

What Wenger is, is stubborn and principled. He knows he needs a striker but not just any striker, he wants a top striker. Most of those are unavailable and the ones that are available don't represent value (in Wenger's eyes).

That

In my view last summer he thought he should either sign someone who was going to properly push us on or not bother at all, why sign another Giroud or Welbeck level player? What does that add? A bit of squad depth I guess but I'm not sure it would have won us the title. So I have some sympathy with that view. But where he got it wrong is not getting his man and it cost us. You need a top striker to win you the league, whether Vardy is one is debatable but he was scoring like one last season and that won them the title. In theory we had plenty of goals in the side so I can see why he might have thought that we could get enough goals from midfield to mitigate the lack of 'an Aguero' but given that it didn't work out it was even more important to 'go big or go home' this summer and, so far, he hasn't.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's not the world class striker we need, no. I've not said he is and neither has Letters from what I can see.



No he doesn't believe he is. Which is why he has said he wants to sign a new striker.




No




He's never claimed he's a top manager.

He's clearly not incompetent as we've discussed already.

I'm not sure what makes him a "fraud" to be honest. That's one of those things people call him on the internet during their vitriolic rants. It doesn't really make sense or add up.

A liar. Not sure what he has lied about to be honest.

What Wenger is, is stubborn and principled. He knows he needs a striker but not just any striker, he wants a top striker. Most of those are unavailable and the ones that are available don't represent value (in Wenger's eyes).

So then you have to look at the next best option. That's an up and coming striker who could become world class. This is where we're failing. I assume that Wenger also feels that most of these don't warrant their price tags either. Now in my eyes we have to pay the money for this type of striker - we don't have a choice about this. We can't go into the season with just Giroud as a striker.

I can predict what will happen now. We'll keep looking for a striker for the next few weeks and nothing will materialise. Towards the end of the window we'll make a bigger bid for a striker (Lacazette probably) and this will fail as they won't have time to replace him. Then we'll try and sign Mahrez to add something to our attack. This will also fail for the same reason. We'll end up with no one new attacking wise. You'll have a brain embolism from pure rage and i'll resign myself to another painful season.

You're probably right in predicting we won't do enough to sign a striker. Because that's what it boils down to, Wenger's insane take on value in a market where value has become meaningless and his "principles" that he rigidly adheres to even though it means he's become the biggest impediment to the club and the fundamental purpose of the club, competing in competitive sport. I say he's a fraud and a liar because, like the rest of them, the stadium move was sold as a vehicle to compete at the top of the game. A world class stadium filled with players to match, if you recall. Plainly that was never the intention. The valuation of the club has sky-rocketed and the trophy cabinet has been stripped. The quality of football has plunged from the very peaks of the game into a common sewer. The exact opposite of the stated goals of the stadium move has been achieved, fortune for a few, nothing for the rest. Wenger has been a beneficiary of this deceit for a decade. His principles are conveniently self focused. His way, his ideas, his rules, all leading to his wallet and his bosses' wallet while they bemoan the state of the market they personally benefit from and whine about their inability to compete from atop their mountain of cash. And come 2019 when the "big 5" clubs that are systematically destroying football sign up their cosy little arrangement to lock themselves into the CL revenue stream then the long term plan will be completed. Wenger with his so called principles will have been a principal architect.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, I don't struggle with that idea. That makes perfect sense and I, too, hoped it would be the start of greater things. It wasn't and that's why I think Wenger should be sacked. Retaining the FA Cup IMO bought him one last try but last season with all the other big boys imploding was a golden opportunity to finally win the title and we cocked it right up. So yes, he should be sacked.
But what doesn't make sense is the way you spent so much of last season saying it's '10 years of failure'. If you think that then you clearly regard the years post 2004 up till and including the first FA Cup win to have been ones of failure. To me that is a very simplistic. And given that you also now dismiss the FA Cup as a minor trophy it makes no sense for that one trophy after all those years of what you regard as failure to be happy with Wenger signing a new contract. So you clearly didn't regard them as an unmitigated failure 2 years ago, now you do. You have done a complete U turn, that's the bit that makes no sense.

Well, as discussed I think he should be sacked. Does that mean I think he's as bad as you make out? No. So yes, I'll defend him against a lot of the more extreme nonsense on here, people hammering him when he says things they basically agree with, all that nonsense. That doesn't mean I'm 'sucking his cock' and think he can do no wrong.

You say you get the idea and then you go into detail to prove you don't. Put another way, if somebody pisses in your face for a decade and then stops and apologises you can either accept their apology of punch them in the throat. If you accept their apology and then they immediately piss in your face it is perfectly legitimate to end them.

You keep saying you want him sacked but you are always on hand to defend the guy, at every turn. I think you want him sacked, provided he remains as manager. But okay. The good things about Wenger 2016. What are they?