Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Tackling and passing are key attributes to all the central midfield positions.Tracking back is a requirement for all midfield positions. Don't let the laziness we've seen from previous players like Denilson fool you. It's like saying a striker must score to be a striker. That's obvious. But for someone to be a 'clinical' striker or a 'fox in the box' that speaks more of the type of player they are. Same applies midfielders that are described as box to box types.

Besides defending, a box to box player should have the energy to burst forward and get into shooting/goal scoring positions. That's not Cazorla. Energy levels and endurance are key to the position hence the term box to box. Someone constantly jogging and working the midfield at both ends of the pitch. Not just short sprints to get back or forward. Anyone can do that. That doesn't make them box to box neither does a tackle or passing ability.

Again things like "don't be fooled" as if somehow because you don't agree with me i am somehow stupid

I can only refer you to the definition of a box to box midfielder i have copied and pasted......tackling and passing ability are not of themselves what make a box to box midfielder no, but they are attributes that make for an effective one. What i am saying is that Cazorla wasn't making short sprints he was often running back from to defensive positions from more advanced positions to win back possession and then he was running with the ball to instigate them. Is that his primary function as a footballer in the sense that these things are his greatest attributes?...No but i haven't argued that. I have argued that he was played in that role when he partnered Coquelin and i have more faith in his ability to do that than Aaron Ramsey who i constantly see trundling back towards goal to win posession, holding onto the ball too long when it's been passed to him from the defence....being a burden to a flowing attacking move because his range of passing and or speed has let him down.

Does he have stamina?...yes but in of itself that's not enough without other attributes which for me he lacks. You go on about energy, he has energy in that he covers a lot of ground, but when it's at such a pace that it breaks down a flowing attacking move of what benefit is that energy. I think Cazorla has a better burst of pace than Ramsey.

I really can't see where any of this is getting us, i think it boils down to the fact that you cannot accept that i think a player playing in a position which isn't his natural position is better at it in my view than a player for whom that position is far more of a natural position.

[Power n Glory]

Again things like "don't be fooled" as if somehow because you don't agree with me i am somehow stupid

I can only refer you to the definition of a box to box midfielder i have copied and pasted......tackling and passing ability are not of themselves what make a box to box midfielder no, but they are attributes that make for an effective one. What i am saying is that Cazorla wasn't making short sprints he was often running back from to defensive positions from more advanced positions to win back possession and then he was running with the ball to instigate them. Is that his primary function as a footballer in the sense that these things are his greatest attributes?...No but i haven't argued that. I have argued that he was played in that role when he partnered Coquelin and i have more faith in his ability to do that than Aaron Ramsey who i constantly see trundling back towards goal to win posession, holding onto the ball too long when it's been passed to him from the defence....being a burden to a flowing attacking move because his range of passing and or speed has let him down.

Does he have stamina?...yes but in of itself that's not enough without other attributes which for me he lacks. You go on about energy, he has energy in that he covers a lot of ground, but when it's at such a pace that it breaks down a flowing attacking move of what benefit is that energy. I think Cazorla has a better burst of pace than Ramsey.

I really can't see where any of this is getting us, i think it boils down to the fact that you cannot accept that i think a player playing in a position which isn't his natural position is better at it in my view than a player for whom that position is his natural position.

It's an expression, man. Don't be so paranoid.

Also, you think I'm defending Ramsey? I think he's pants. Mastermind and I have had many debates on that. But we both agree on the type of player he is. Again, this is not about quality of performance. Ramsey would be described by most people as a box to box midfielder.

[Kano]

[fakeyank]

HCZ and PnG at it again

Get a room guys.. its high time!

[Power n Glory]

HCZ and PnG at it again

Get a room guys.. its high time!

What's with all the gay fantasy shit? It's a debate and I tend to argue my point like this with everyone.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's an expression, man. Don't be so paranoid.

Also, you think I'm defending Ramsey? I think he's pants. Mastermind and I have had many debates on that. But we both agree on the type of player he is. Again, this is not about quality of performance. Ramsey would be described by most people as a box to box midfielder.

And my point is that i think Cazorla is better at playing that role than he is, and i think the term box to box midfielder is more indicative of where a player is slotted in a formation and style of play. I never argued to begin with that Cazorla was a box to box midfielder, for the past however many hours i have said i don't know how many times that in my view he was slotted into that role to play alongside Coquelin.
And i can't argue whether or not Ramsey is designated as a box to box midfielder, but he lacks so many of the attributes that would make him any good at the role that it seems an almost pointless label.....i have seen him play in a defensive role, i have seen him play in an advance role and sometimes i have seen him meander around the pitch and never the twain shall meet.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

HCZ and PnG at it again

Get a room guys.. its high time!

I really think it's high time you stop trying to deflect the clear frustration that you have that your homoerotic desires are seen as a moral aberration in your country.

This is the 21st century, if you like the D that's none of my business.....maybe become an activist for Gay Rights?

[mastermind84]

Its the eternal question I guess. He definitely isnt a right winger which is where Wenger generally shoehorns him in, So where does he fit. Somewhere in midfield except hes not a DM.

The problem with footy fans is that we don't think critical. Everything has to be fixed when in reality nothing is fixed on a pitch.

Why would you have Ransey playing as a winger? You don't. You have Ramsey has a midfield right in order to help the right channel and support Bellerin. It's not different from what Pogba played for Juventus.

It seems like a shoehorn because Arsenal have no system and that's on Wenger.

[Globalgunner]

The problem with footy fans is that we don't think critical. Everything has to be fixed when in reality nothing is fixed on a pitch.

Why would you have Ransey playing as a winger? You don't. You have Ramsey has a midfield right in order to help the right channel and support Bellerin. It's not different from what Pogba played for Juventus.

It seems like a shoehorn because Arsenal have no system and that's on Wenger.

Agreed but a player like Campbell offers so much more in the same position. While I agree that players movements can be fluid but positional discipline is key especially when you lose possession. Ramsey should not be on the right wing. I dare say even a poor player like Walnutt is better than him there. Ramsey may have a good engine, but it is a diesel engine, he can run all day but not very fast. If he stays on the wing he will get burned by the opposition winger on the counter and not beat him going the other way.

[Power n Glory]

And my point is that i think Cazorla is better at playing that role than he is, and i think the term box to box midfielder is more indicative of where a player is slotted in a formation and style of play. I never argued to begin with that Cazorla was a box to box midfielder, for the past however many hours i have said i don't know how many times that in my view he was slotted into that role to play alongside Coquelin.
And i can't argue whether or not Ramsey is designated as a box to box midfielder, but he lacks so many of the attributes that would make him any good at the role that it seems an almost pointless label.....i have seen him play in a defensive role, i have seen him play in an advance role and sometimes i have seen him meander around the pitch and never the twain shall meet.

Cazorla is a much better player than Ramsey and better as CM. I've said for ages he should be starting games there over Ramsey. Same goes for when we had Rosicky. Similar sort of player to Cazorla but not described as a box to box player. I can't stress enough how this is not argument about the quality of a player.

When we played against Leicester, we played Xhaka and Coquelin as the midfield pair. Did any of them slot into the 'box to box' role? It's worth reading Wenger's comments on how he describes our different midfielders and their skill set.