Match Reaction vs Swansea City (away).

[Letters]

Are you honestly arguing that we are the main source of the money?

https://www.theguardian.com/football...own-david-conn

Income Gate and match-day income £100m (us - well, not me now)
TV and broadcasting £125m (us - we're the ones subscribing to the sports channels. Well, I'm not any more...)
Retail £25m;
Commercial £79m;
Property development £15m;
Player trading £0.8m

So yes, I am arguing that. If people stopped going to the grounds and stopped subscribing to the TV channels then the whole thing comes tumbling down. You're not going to get big sponsorship deals when no-one is watching.

And in any case I was asking NQ what he personally gets out of it. I've not had a reply. It is up to him but I'm just curious as he doesn't seem to derive any pleasure even from good results.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

https://www.theguardian.com/football...own-david-conn

Income Gate and match-day income £100m (us - well, not me now)
TV and broadcasting £125m (us - we're the ones subscribing to the sports channels. Well, I'm not any more...)
Retail £25m;
Commercial £79m;
Property development £15m;
Player trading £0.8m

So yes, I am arguing that. If people stopped going to the grounds and stopped subscribing to the TV channels then the whole thing comes tumbling down. You're not going to get big sponsorship deals when no-one is watching.

And in any case I was asking NQ what he personally gets out of it. I've not had a reply. It is up to him but I'm just curious as he doesn't seem to derive any pleasure even from good results.

Right so if every Arsenal fan stopped subscribing to the tv channels the revenue would simply disappear?

Should we petition every other fan of any other club whose subscription heavily contributes to the TV money we receive?

Don't get me wrong I think fan boycotts would make a difference as it would make sponsors get itchy feet to see that the stadium is half empty and full of placards, but directly the financial loss to the club would not be anywhere near as big as it was.

Why should he have to answer you?......what he comes here for is his own business. The fact is you don't like it because you think he is being relentlessly negative, so the problem you refer to seems to be much more yours than his.

[Power n Glory]

The fans are still the main source of income. It's not the largest source but if the fanbase starts to shrink, so does that corporate sponsorship pocket money. We’re able to squeeze more money out of these sponsors because we have the figures to back up a loyal fanbase that attend games week in week out and buy the merchandise. It’s why we’re trying to expand that following over in Asia and America. If the fans start to fall away, sponsors won’t be so eager to renew a deal under the same terms and may even decrease what they spend on us or walk away.

As for the TV money, clubs can’t be foolish and bet the house on that money being sustainable. Neglect your core fans, along with the stadium and we could end up like Serie A. Viewing figures have been down here in the UK and overseas. UEFA have also admitted that selling all the rights to BT Sports for the CL was a mistake. When those deals are up for a renewal, what’s on offer might not be so lucrative. The Board are smart enough to know that can't build a house on sand and expect it to stand the test of time.

[Power n Glory]

Also, let NQ answer for himself. This 'addict' narrative is too presumptuous.

[Letters]

Right so if every Arsenal fan stopped subscribing to the tv channels the revenue would simply disappear? .

And stopped buying tickets and all the merchandise. Yes, of course it would, or would make a massive dent. Enough to make the board whose only concern is revenue, sit up and take notice. It won't happen, obviously, but ultimately it's the only power we collectively have.

He doesn't HAVE to answer to me, I was just asking as I'm puzzled why someone would spend so much time on something he seems to get so little from. With other addictions I get the attraction, with this...if you can't even enjoy good results any more then what are you getting from it? It's his business of course, I was just asking. I thought we were allowed to do that on a message board.

[Niall_Quinn]

What's this? What are you on about now Letters?

Why do I post here? I could give you an extremely in-depth response to that, but I already have in the body of all the posts I have made here. In short though, because it's better than doing shitty, species sapping work for money. Banter, a laugh, to get information that isn't pre-packaged by money whores in the sports media, to get other opinions, etc, etc, and so on. Loads of reasons, but mainly to avoid shitty, progressively pointless, species sapping work.

Or are you asking why I support Arsenal? Because I have done, do now and will do in the future. I think you are suggesting that if I don't derive pleasure from a bunch of scummy profiteers hijacking the club, and a loser of a bloke managing the team then I ought to give the game up? What's the logic behind that idea? What would happen to the club if we all pissed off the minute it went into a slump? This is what through thick and thin means. I doesn't mean you have to like the thin bits or approve of them or put a smile on your face and feign love for them. Plenty of fans have decided that nothing changes and everything to do with the club is fairly pointless until Wenger leaves. They are right, of course, because the evidence bears that out. That's Wenger leaving, right? Not the fans. I have an interest in seeing this club do well again and start winning again. Playing decent football again. I haven't lowered my standards just because Wenger has lowered his.

You want to see me leaping around celebrating a crappy performance against a woeful Swansea, a game in which the one player I actually enjoy watching was hauled off because the prehistoric manager wants to average him out over the season to secure that coveted top 4 spot? Not a chance. I was 3 points and another shit performance and, as I have said before, a string of flat track bully outings doesn't make any difference to the final outcome. On the other hand, I enjoyed the first half against the chavs - just the first half mind. Probably (no definitely) because the performance was decent, I'd have enjoyed that even if we hadn't got the goals and even if we'd have lost the match. When there's something worth praising I praise it, when there's something worth pissing on I piss on it. Unfortunately we have Wenger here so just about everything is pissworthy, his fault, not mine. That's for sure.

I think the thing you don't get is that we've been doing this over and over again for at least 10 years now. So do I enjoy seeing us do the exact same thing again? Nope. And does that mean I have to stop supporting the club? I don't think so. Show me that rule in the book. Things will turn again, they always do. That's when the enjoyment will come again and I don't mean winning titles, I mean playing the type of football we all grew up on. That has to come back sooner or later, not just at Arsenal but all across the game. Otherwise the game will die. It can't survive for much longer pretending the frauds in the game today (both on and off the pitch) are fit to lace the boots of those who went before them. I include Wenger in that, although he places himself in the strange position of not being fit to lace his own boots. I don't know what's happened to the bloke, some sort of mental condition, but he's not driving me away from the club. Why should I allow him to do that?

As for yourself, if you have withdrawn so much from the club as you seem to be claiming, why do you run a fan forum on the Internet?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Also, let NQ answer for himself. This 'addict' narrative is too presumptuous.

It's also purely specculative and not in anyway personally directed at NQ, i'm giving one possible obvious reason why someone would continue to do something they don't enjoy.

I think he comes here because he enjoys engaging with other people on here, the same reason we all do whether we admit it or not.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's also purely specculative and not in anyway personally directed at NQ, i'm giving one possible obvious reason why someone would continue to do something they don't enjoy.

I think he comes here because he enjoys engaging with other people on here, the same reason we all do whether we admit it or not.

But I do enjoy laying into Wenger. Because he absolutely deserves it. And mine is one voice, on its own insignificant to the corporateers. But many of those single voices, that's what prevents these scumbags running the whole table. They have to at least pretend to be in it for the football if at least a significant body of the fanbase is calling them out for their bullshit behaviour. It's the same with any corporation. They want money, that's ALL they want. Give them your fucking money, ALL of it, for ever. That's their model and their proposition. So they'll play along to a degree if they are forced to stay just a little bit honest. But drop the protest for one minute and they'll start pushing the other way. Give them an inch and they'll take your pension.

Fans SHOULD be on here and on Twatter and at the ground and everywhere shouting at the tops of their voices - NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Fucking do better! It's a major problem at Arsenal. The Library. Too many day-trippers and posh frocks who can afford on a whim the outrageous sums demanded. And the more of these we end up with the more polite they'll be and the more the corporateers will be able to push, push, push. Until, like the biblical swarm of devouring pests they are, everything is stripped bare and left desolate as they swarm to their next target. Yes, I'm sticking around to call these cunts out for what they are.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well there we go then, perversely i must admit even though i hate us losing in some respects there is a positive to it as it gives us more to discuss on these type of forums and there is the plus side of feeling like it's moving Wenger nearer to the exit door.

Don't get me wrong given the choice i'd much rather take a win especially against the top sides, when we beat Chelsea in September I had the buzz from that all weekend, ditto with beating United the previous autumn and City two years ago and before xmas last year.

These type of results seem so infrequent though, I don't expect us to beat these sides all the time and never lose to them...it's neither realistic or possible unless you're cheating on football manager.

But haven't beaten Spurs in the league in almost three years, Haven't won at Anfield in four years, stamford bridge in five years, Old Trafford in over ten years.

If we were a mid table side i'd say we were spoilt but we are not.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well there we go then, perversely i must admit even though i hate us losing in some respects there is a positive to it as it gives us more to discuss on these type of forums and there is the plus side of feeling like it's moving Wenger nearer to the exit door.

Don't get me wrong given the choice i'd much rather take a win especially against the top sides, when we beat Chelsea in September I had the buzz from that all weekend, ditto with beating United the previous autumn and City two years ago and before xmas last year.

These type of results seem so infrequent though, I don't expect us to beat these sides all the time and never lose to them...it's neither realistic or possible unless you're cheating on football manager.

But haven't beaten Spurs in the league in almost three years, Haven't won at Anfield in four years, stamford bridge in five years, Old Trafford in over ten years.

If we were a mid table side i'd say we were spoilt but we are not.

Which demonstrates clearly that Wenger is not pursuing excellence, he's pursuing averageness. Even though we rarely beat our closest rivals we still end up in the top 4. To do this we go out and get enough points against the smaller clubs. To win a title we not only have to beat those smaller clubs, but we have to step up and take points from our rivals on a much more regular basis. But we don't make that step up, the club is more than satisfied with trailing in behind the champions every season. Of course they are or else the manager would have been sacked like at any club with serious title ambitions. Liverpool don't put up with stagnation or failure, the spuds don't put up with it, the mancs, the chavs, the gypos. We laugh at their high managerial turnover but that's the result of those clubs seeking to improve. We, on the other hand, sit here and accept what is for us, given our extensive resources, an average, moderate, par, unremarkable outcome each year. The money rolls in, some of the more idiotic fans sing Wenger's name in the stadium. Pathetic really.

Wasn't it Letters who said earlier that Wenger clearly wants to win and that's not up for debate? It certainly is up for debate. Where's the proof he wants to win? Nowhere. Does doing a little dance and kicking water bottles prove he wants to win? No, it proves he's a sore loser. The word being LOSER. If he wanted to win then he'd play more expansive football, take more risks, buy better players, spend money with ambition. But he doesn't do those things. Instead he cements the averageness of the club. He bakes in that 4th place finish. That's his job and that's the extent of his ambitions because his actions speak far more loudly than any of his repetitive excuses.

And that's what I saw against Swansea, the same thing I have seen over and over again. The same old crappy performance, 3 more points towards that inevitably average total, the top 4 finish back on track, a manager that accepts less, a team that accepts less (and both are inexplicably arrogant with it). Strikers that celebrate last gasp equalisers against teams we have twice the resources of and the bench and criticism for the one player who really seems to give a fuck.

It's a very broken club. Honest fans will look at it and speak honestly. The rest, your Ty and Chris Wenger brigade, will continue deluding themselves and in the bargain give Wenger the support by which he carries on this soul destroying trudge into grey, season after season. For the sake of the club it's a bloody good job they aren't the only sort of fans left because then there would be no hope at all.

There's a video up on AFTV (I think), shows Ty getting an autograph through Wenger's car window. You should see the guy's face as he walks away, it's as if he's just received communion. The guy's mentally ill and so are all his mates that can't see what's under their noses or, worse, don't care provided they have their seat and their authentic merchandise. You really have to wonder, if those guys enjoy it so much why do they continue to turn up? All they are doing is hurting the club they claim to love, hurting it badly.