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Thread: Match Reaction vs Swansea City (away).

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Which demonstrates clearly that Wenger is not pursuing excellence, he's pursuing averageness. Even though we rarely beat our closest rivals we still end up in the top 4. To do this we go out and get enough points against the smaller clubs. To win a title we not only have to beat those smaller clubs, but we have to step up and take points from our rivals on a much more regular basis. But we don't make that step up, the club is more than satisfied with trailing in behind the champions every season. Of course they are or else the manager would have been sacked like at any club with serious title ambitions. Liverpool don't put up with stagnation or failure, the spuds don't put up with it, the mancs, the chavs, the gypos. We laugh at their high managerial turnover but that's the result of those clubs seeking to improve. We, on the other hand, sit here and accept what is for us, given our extensive resources, an average, moderate, par, unremarkable outcome each year. The money rolls in, some of the more idiotic fans sing Wenger's name in the stadium. Pathetic really.

    Wasn't it Letters who said earlier that Wenger clearly wants to win and that's not up for debate? It certainly is up for debate. Where's the proof he wants to win? Nowhere. Does doing a little dance and kicking water bottles prove he wants to win? No, it proves he's a sore loser. The word being LOSER. If he wanted to win then he'd play more expansive football, take more risks, buy better players, spend money with ambition. But he doesn't do those things. Instead he cements the averageness of the club. He bakes in that 4th place finish. That's his job and that's the extent of his ambitions because his actions speak far more loudly than any of his repetitive excuses.

    And that's what I saw against Swansea, the same thing I have seen over and over again. The same old crappy performance, 3 more points towards that inevitably average total, the top 4 finish back on track, a manager that accepts less, a team that accepts less (and both are inexplicably arrogant with it). Strikers that celebrate last gasp equalisers against teams we have twice the resources of and the bench and criticism for the one player who really seems to give a fuck.

    It's a very broken club. Honest fans will look at it and speak honestly. The rest, your Ty and Chris Wenger brigade, will continue deluding themselves and in the bargain give Wenger the support by which he carries on this soul destroying trudge into grey, season after season. For the sake of the club it's a bloody good job they aren't the only sort of fans left because then there would be no hope at all.

    There's a video up on AFTV (I think), shows Ty getting an autograph through Wenger's car window. You should see the guy's face as he walks away, it's as if he's just received communion. The guy's mentally ill and so are all his mates that can't see what's under their noses or, worse, don't care provided they have their seat and their authentic merchandise. You really have to wonder, if those guys enjoy it so much why do they continue to turn up? All they are doing is hurting the club they claim to love, hurting it badly.
    This!

    Honestly...Wenger should have resigned out of principle after last season which even by his standards was an absolute disaster, how we managed to finish 2nd in a one horse race for the title will forever tarnish Wenger's reputation.

  2. #92
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    I'm not sure I agree, if you asked a chain smoker did they want to avoid lung cancer they are going to say yes of course but if you ask them what they will do to avoid that they are a bit more circumspect.

    Wenger wants to win but he is so stubborn and entrenched that he can't or won't accept that his methods aren't working it's easier to believe bad luck, things conspiring against him and his team etc are responsible than their desire and application and his tactical paucity.

    Is he doing enough to win in terms of innovation, match preparation, the right squad balance etc ? No but I'm not sure that's necessarily indicative of not wanting to win.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
    I'm not sure I agree, if you asked a chain smoker did they want to avoid lung cancer they are going to say yes of course but if you ask them what they will do to avoid that they are a bit more circumspect.

    Wenger wants to win but he is so stubborn and entrenched that he can't or won't accept that his methods aren't working it's easier to believe bad luck, things conspiring against him and his team etc are responsible than their desire and application and his tactical paucity.

    Is he doing enough to win in terms of innovation, match preparation, the right squad balance etc ? No but I'm not sure that's necessarily indicative of not wanting to win.
    Wanting to win? Yeah sure, he'll want to win every game. I want us to win every game. Doing what it takes to win? Different matter. Anyone can say they want to win but to really want it, like Alexis for example, then it's more than just words. You need to act, to do what it takes to win. If we are saying Wenger is a bloke who mouths platitudes, yep I agree with that. If you ask me if he really wants to win, just like the smoker who wants to quit after this one last fag, nope, no realistic signs at all that he wants to win. He doesn't do any of the things required to win so he can't really want it. Or else his definition of winning is fucked up in some terrible way.
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Wanting to win? Yeah sure, he'll want to win every game. I want us to win every game. Doing what it takes to win? Different matter. Anyone can say they want to win but to really want it, like Alexis for example, then it's more than just words. You need to act, to do what it takes to win. If we are saying Wenger is a bloke who mouths platitudes, yep I agree with that. If you ask me if he really wants to win, just like the smoker who wants to quit after this one last fag, nope, no realistic signs at all that he wants to win. He doesn't do any of the things required to win so he can't really want it. Or else his definition of winning is fucked up in some terrible way.
    Thats exactly whats wrong. Wenger is better of moving on and letting someone else take over.

  5. #95
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Wanting to win? Yeah sure, he'll want to win every game. I want us to win every game. Doing what it takes to win? Different matter. Anyone can say they want to win but to really want it, like Alexis for example, then it's more than just words. You need to act, to do what it takes to win. If we are saying Wenger is a bloke who mouths platitudes, yep I agree with that. If you ask me if he really wants to win, just like the smoker who wants to quit after this one last fag, nope, no realistic signs at all that he wants to win. He doesn't do any of the things required to win so he can't really want it. Or else his definition of winning is fucked up in some terrible way.
    I wouldn't disagree, there is a definite desire to win but no he's never been prepared to do whatever it takes to win because that would be a form of cheating in his mind, like I say again the guy is so stubborn, so entrenched that he probably genuinely believes he's doing all he can do within the narrow parameters he's set himself. The effort is there from him he's the first one at London Colney and the last one to leave he lives, eats and breathes this job but his energy is employed in all the wrong directions.

  6. #96
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFC Leveller View Post
    Thats exactly whats wrong. Wenger is better of moving on and letting someone else take over.
    But we are stuck in a logical impasse between a manager who cannot accept he is either incapable or unwilling of taking us any further and a board who don't want to rock the boat by being pro-active.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by selassie View Post
    This!

    Honestly...Wenger should have resigned out of principle after last season which even by his standards was an absolute disaster, how we managed to finish 2nd in a one horse race for the title will forever tarnish Wenger's reputation.
    How was it a one horse race?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    How was it a one horse race?
    We were challenging the Spuds and Leicester for the title, none of our traditional rivals were ever in contention.

    We well and truly screwed up last season...do I even need to go into the details?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
    I'm not sure I agree, if you asked a chain smoker did they want to avoid lung cancer they are going to say yes of course but if you ask them what they will do to avoid that they are a bit more circumspect.

    Wenger wants to win but he is so stubborn and entrenched that he can't or won't accept that his methods aren't working it's easier to believe bad luck, things conspiring against him and his team etc are responsible than their desire and application and his tactical paucity.

    Is he doing enough to win in terms of innovation, match preparation, the right squad balance etc ? No but I'm not sure that's necessarily indicative of not wanting to win.
    The fact that he is stubborn and entrenched in his own methods is the precise reason to why he needs to go immediately, and why he will never win the major trophies again at Arsenal.

    I accept that wanting to win isn't a black and white question and there are grey areas of which many you have touched upon...but the facts are that he is not doing enough to setup his squad to win regardless of whether these reasons are principle led or not.
    Last edited by selassie; 18-01-2017 at 03:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
    But we are stuck in a logical impasse between a manager who cannot accept he is either incapable or unwilling of taking us any further and a board who don't want to rock the boat by being pro-active.
    It's not even just that, given his response to the fans at the end of last season I suspect he thinks he's doing a good enough job. In fact I think the board feel he is doing a good enough job even after last season's debacle.

    This is the problem...Wenger seems to set his own standards of what constitutes a successful season and they are not always consistent and certainly don't match up with a sizeable percentage of the fans ambitions/standards.

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