Good Bye RVP!

[Letters]

Well we're in the Champions League this season, that's why. If there are only two more games to cope with what we have had to cope with this season, it's probably easier to gauge there wouldn't be a huge amount of difference. Having big gaps between games makes no difference if you don't have the requisite quality (look at Liverpool this season). Also, am I right to guess you'd rather we finished sixth (seventh if Citeh won the Carling Cup)?

If we're not in the top 4 I don't give a shit where we finish.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We 'tolerate' the CL games making our squad tired, giving us extra injuries because the rewards of being in the CL (financial, for the club, and competing against the best sides in Europe, for the fans) outweigh this. We've seen how decimated our squad gets by injuries, partly due to playing in the CL but not being in the CL and having a fresher squad would not be chosen by any fan if they had that option.

The Europa League offers no such benefits. It's a drawn out competition for the losers of Europe. Were we in it, we'd be expected to win it. Winning it would not bring that much joy to the club as it's expected while not winning it brings embarrassment and shame. Financially it is a complete waste of time - if I'm right the group stages of the CL provide you with more money than winning the EL does, and we're hardly testing ourselves against the very best of Europe.

The argument that we'd get to see more of the youth team play is perhaps true, but it's more due to flawed thinking by the manager than anything else. We don't have that many top youth talents - ignoring the likes of Chesney, Wilshere, Ramsey, Song, Walcott etc who are first teamers now we only have Chamberlain, Miquel, Jenkinson, Yennaris, Miyaichi, Campbell, Coquelin etc they can always be sent out on loan or given a chance in the Carling Cup. If they are good enough to play, they should be playing for the first team - playing in a worthless competition does nothing to help them do this.

I'd rather have injuries, a tired squad and the CL, of course, but not having the EL and having a much fresher (since we'd play around 20% less games) squad for the league and two cups would be much preferred by me.

No I would say it's the Premier League that has more impact on players fitness, mainly due to the way the game is played - generally at 100mph. We aren't passing as well anymore, that means we have to work harder to get the ball back. In the Premier League when you're being chased and harried for most of the game, it's going to be much harder for a side of our quality to achieve.

If the Champions League group stage is the tipping point to make them tired by December (six games over three months minimum!) then they shouldn't be professionals in the first place.

I really do not care what other teams viewpoint of the competition is, I think it's gross arrogance really the disdain the competition is given. It isn't treated with the same derision in Spain where the gap between being in the Champions League and not is probably more profound than it is over here, given the safety blanket the Premier League provides.

In terms of the teams participating in it, I daresay we'd probably encounter a few teams on roughly the same level of quality that we are at, should we get particularly far in to it. Now that might be because the competition is filled with dropouts from the Champions League but, for that reason, it's probably not the worst idea in the world.

It's not flawed thinking that we would play our youth players in that competition because that's probably exactly what Wenger would do. I'd rather we wouldn't, like I said before.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If we're not in the top 4 I don't give a shit where we finish.

I see but do you want us to be in the top four because of the grandeur of the competition we get in to, or the financial benefits achieving that would (supposed to) give? Or both?

[LDG]

I agree with Letters, but for the sole reason that if we keep on trying to patch up age old problems within our team, we'll continue to tread water or sink.

We need a revamp, and the distractions of this "4th place" being successful and vindication of a good season, stop the real business of sorting this stiking mess out.

[Letters]

I see but do you want us to be in the top four because of the grandeur of the competition we get in to, or the financial benefits achieving that would (supposed to) give? Or both?

Both. I don't think the Europa league offers either so frankly my dear I don't give a crap if we qualify for that. As Syn says I don't think the potential detrimental effect the extra games could have on the squad is offset by the prestige of being in the competition. With the CL it is, IMO.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If we're not in the top 4 I don't give a shit where we finish.

you mean in the top 10 right?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Both. I don't think the Europa league offers either so frankly my dear I don't give a crap if we qualify for that. As Syn says I don't think the potential detrimental effect the extra games could have on the squad is offset by the prestige of being in the competition. With the CL it is, IMO.

No, I suppose the Europa League probably doesn't. However finishing higher up in the league, does, financially. If it gets harder for us, should we ever get back in to the Champions League to get through the group stage of the Champions League, don't we lose out on the money we have earnt by reaching the last 16 this season? And what if, England's coefficient goes down without us being in Europe at all? Eventually that could well mean England loses its fourth spot. Now granted that's a way off yet but it shouldn't be taken for granted that it will always be there.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No, I suppose the Europa League probably doesn't. However finishing higher up in the league, does, financially. If it gets harder for us, should we ever get back in to the Champions League to get through the group stage of the Champions League, don't we lose out on the money we have earnt by reaching the last 16 this season? And what if, England's coefficient goes down without us being in Europe at all? Eventually that could well mean England loses its fourth spot. Now granted that's a way off yet but it shouldn't be taken for granted that it will always be there.

Which won't be a bad thing at all tbh.

[Syn]

Both. I don't think the Europa league offers either so frankly my dear I don't give a crap if we qualify for that. As Syn says I don't think the potential detrimental effect the extra games could have on the squad is offset by the prestige of being in the competition. With the CL it is, IMO.

I don't think I said that. I think we'd go far in the competition and in other cup competitions if there is a revamp but would struggle more in the league. IMO our young players are made for being cup heroes.

[Boss]

Whether or not we'd place an importance on the Europa league, we would go quite far in it. If we drop out of the top 4 and if we have a summer where other teams consolidate further and we are weakened with Van Persie leaving, I have a feeling we'd go back to being cup specialists with average league seasons. Our youth seems to have that character about them. Wilshere, Szczesny, Oxlade, Jenkinson and others - you can imagine them picking it up for the big games but not having the consistency to do well in the league.

I don't think that's unique to our youth and is probably true of a decent majority of players across the game. When you're at that level it's fair enough that you're going to look forward to some games more than others, games against the top teams and derby matches, for example. It's quite common that teams lower than us in the league will raise their games whenever they play the top four yet be complete shite against similar level opposition - see Swansea playing out of their skins against us (effort wise) vs being ineffective against Sunderland, Bolton being poor for most of the season yet destroying Liverpool, Norwich and Wolves having a decent ish games (performance wise if not results) against the top four compared to lower teams in the league. Look at Liverpool, who have been extremely poor against weaker teams this season but managed to pull out a top drawer performance against Citeh away.

Think most players motivation will drop for 'smaller' games, it's down to the manager to keep them motivated and make sure they're sent out to be professional. Ours patently isn't as good as motivating as others, but that's been discussed on here before.