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Thread: Wenger must go end of the season

  1. #61
    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Not really the same thing for each of these individuals though. Cloughie was a pisshead and drunks are always going to go downhill in the end. Thatcher and Blair began as idealists (much like Wenger) but over time were consumed by the establishment they sought (pretended) to change. Wenger is still an idealist after all this time. He's not as weak as the others you mention. Neither is he a pisshead, a fucking Tory cunt or a raving homicidal maniac.

    In truth, you can't just separate Wenger from the board and analyse him in isolation. Both are one and the same in terms of the end result, ultimately whether on the pitch or off it. The both believe football should be run their way. That's not a critical problem, but it becomes one when they ignore the fact football is not run their way but persist with their incompatible methods anyway. Then they take the moral high ground after the inevitable failures. Whether Wenger and the board are fucking the club for the same or different reasons I don't know. All I know is they are fucking the club. Wenger does it unintentionally as a by-product of his stubbornness and, to a degree, arrogance - I think. The board does it because it is comprised of horrendously greedy cunts who should be murdered and then disposed of in an acid bath.


    Yes - I'll buy that. Both parties clearly have their part to play, and from where I'm sitting Wenger has no agenda, whereas the board is more likely to.

    But the point I was making about Cloughie; Blair and Thatcher is that they, and Wenger, all have one thing in common. They started off great, and ultimately lost direction because they lost perspective and objectivity. Clough ended up being relegated; Blair took us to war in Iraq and Thather was undone by the poll tax.
    Putting the laughter back into manslaughter

  2. #62
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    Blair

  3. #63
    Member Kano's Avatar
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    The greatest irony, and there were plenty of them around at Arsenal on Sunday, was that the outcry was triggered by a change. Arsène Wenger's decision to substitute a talented youngster with potential for an experienced and expensive international was also, on at least one level, pretty ironic, although no one saw it that way for a simple reason: Andrey Arshavin, the Russia captain, has become a total liability. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, by contrast, had impressed on his full Premier League debut against Manchester United.

    Wenger promoted contrariness afterwards. The jeering of the substitution, he suggested, vindicated his decision to start Oxlade-Chamberlain ahead of Arshavin. Arsenal are living in topsy-turvy times, where even what may appear sensible invites condemnation. The club's financial results are due out by the end of next month and they will be impressively strong. The directors are waiting for a bad day to bury the good news.

    Arsenal's supporters are back in mutiny mode and it was a complication for Wenger that Robin van Persie seemed to be on board with them. The captain also expressed his unhappiness at the substitution, which presaged Danny Welbeck's winning goal for United (Arshavin, following Sod's law, had to be at fault) and it did not need the pundit Gary Neville to pronounce that "if the captain's reacting like that, you've got problems".

    Wenger is bogged down in them. He should be able to shrug off Van Persie's heat-of-the-moment exasperation and the striker will not base his decision on whether to extend his Arsenal contract in the summer on one substitution that went painfully wrong. "The manager and I are fine and my relationship with the club is good," Van Persie told the Sun. "There is no problem, there is no conflict, there is no controversy."

    But the bigger picture is not encouraging the Dutchman or the fans. The United defeat was Arsenal's third in succession and eighth of the Premier League season. They sit five points off the Champions League pace and if the half-full-glass drinkers note that fourth-placed Chelsea still have to visit the Emirates, the half-empty brigade fear that the fixture on 21 April will press Wenger's team out of contention. And that is if they were to remain in it. The apocalyptic scenario is that no Champions League qualification equals no Van Persie next season. Wenger admitted last Friday that no Champions League football equalled a disaster in sporting terms.

    Sunday felt like a tipping point for Wenger because the dissent was so vociferous and widespread. Even the supporters who did not chant "You don't know what you're doing" at him surely asked themselves the question. A body that measures in the thousands has lost its faith in the man who famously "knows", and that goes for his substitutions to his decisions in the transfer market.

    Gooner soul-searching is nothing new. There was an outbreak of it in the desperate weeks of the early season and there is the sense now that the improved performances and results from the end of September to the turn of the year merely papered over the cracks and the inherent fragility of the squad.

    Expectation levels have already been scaled down, just as Wenger's summer deadline-day splurge on a clutch of steady heads marked a change to his approach. The limit of Arsenal's ambitions for the season has long been to finish fourth but the doubters argue the club are sprinting to stand still, even if a Champions League play-off is infinitely preferable to falling off the precipice in fifth.

    The fans want, somehow, to get back to the old level, when the team were regular title contenders. Deep down, they wonder whether the squad is good enough, which undermines Wenger's belief that things will be OK when his many injured and unavailable players return. And in order to drive the upturn, there is the growing feeling that fundamental change is required.

    The plain fact is, though, that it will not come about easily as it is not only Wenger but the chief executive, Ivan Gazidis, and the majority shareholder, Stan Kroenke, who are wedded to the club's economic model, which is against high-risk spend-to-accumulate offensives.

    Those who feel that Wenger should jump or be pushed from his post ought to be careful what they wish for. Kroenke and Gazidis would seek a replacement with similar philosophies and to work in a similar framework, and not only because of the incoming financial fair play regulations. In Wenger, they may already have the best.

    A radical view involves the removal of Kroenke and Gazidis, and a fresh approach entirely, perhaps under the leadership of Alisher Usmanov, who owns a little under 30% of the club's shares and has positioned himself against the concept of the self-sustaining business model. It would be fiendishly difficult to see this happening.

    Gazidis has identified a huge discrepancy between the worldwide reach of the Arsenal brand and the revenue that it generates. He believes that bringing the latter up to speed – the club have sophisticated strategies in place to do so – is the surest way forward. It is simply not possible to play the sheikhs and the oligarchs at their own game.

    And so Wenger and Arsenal will continue to dip their shoulder against emotional supporters, unsatisfactory short-term fixes and the prospect of an excruciating slide. As another crisis bites, there are no clear solutions. The ever-decreasing circles are dizzying.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...al-mutiny-fans

  4. #64
    Member Olivier's xmas twist's Avatar
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    Those who feel that Wenger should jump or be pushed from his post ought to be careful what they wish for. Kroenke and Gazidis would seek a replacement with similar philosophies and to work in a similar framework, and not only because of the incoming financial fair play regulations. In Wenger, they may already have the best.
    This is the thing even if wenger was to go wit this board they get someone even worse thats the problem.

  5. #65
    Pat Rice LDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz View Post
    Good article that.

    I suppose the biggest, most frustrating and underlying reason for disatisfaction (even if pig-headed internet warriors think otherwise), is that NOBODY BLOODY WELL KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.

    And we'll never know either.

    I'm resigned to hoping that there is some wonder plan behind it all...and we'll rise like a phoenix from the flames.

    Come on The Arsenal.
    It's better to burn out, than to fade away.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDG View Post
    Good article that.

    I suppose the biggest, most frustrating and underlying reason for disatisfaction (even if pig-headed internet warriors think otherwise), is that NOBODY BLOODY WELL KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.

    And we'll never know either.

    I'm resigned to hoping that there is some wonder plan behind it all...and we'll rise like a phoenix from the flames.

    Come on The Arsenal.
    Arsene's book will be an interesting read, when he's at liberty to write it.
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  7. #67
    Member Kano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDG View Post
    Good article that.

    I suppose the biggest, most frustrating and underlying reason for disatisfaction (even if pig-headed internet warriors think otherwise), is that NOBODY BLOODY WELL KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.

    And we'll never know either.

    I'm resigned to hoping that there is some wonder plan behind it all...and we'll rise like a phoenix from the flames.

    Come on The Arsenal.
    thing is, I can see why the board are staying so silent. in my opinion it would be absolute lunacy if the shareholders were not thinking of capitalising on the growth potential our club obviously has - the idea of asset stripping makes little sense when there is so much more to be made long term and asset stripping usually occurs when a company is heading towards the junkyard.

    the analysis of the accounts have been made by various people indicating there is money to spend yet we seem reluctant to do so and i am of the believe that it is being pushed somewhere else for use. we see it in cold black and white but that does not take into account any internal plans they have for this money, which at the moment clearly isn't being thrown at team investment.

    we are told that there is money to spend yet we don't see it so it is all about image. why would they tell everyone the have no money to spend, ruin the perception of the club? so the fans should be told the truth right? well like any large corporate company, they wouldn't reveal inner secrets to their customers full in the believe that they will always buy what they sell and it applies even more to the football world.

    as the article says, we are due for more of the same if wenger leaves this summer so i would really like to see who could take on the role and perform better under this circumstances.
    Last edited by Kano; 24-01-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Arsene's book will be an interesting read, when he's at liberty to write it.
    Got a feeling that the non-disclosure agreement could run into millions, and as a consequence we'll probably never know.

    At the very least, not until any persons incriminated are safely dead.

  9. #69
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann View Post
    Got a feeling that the non-disclosure agreement could run into millions, and as a consequence we'll probably never know.

    At the very least, not until any persons incriminated are safely dead.
    By safely dead you meant happily dead I suppose?
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  10. #70
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    thing is, I can see why the board are staying so silent. in my opinion it would be absolute lunacy if the shareholders were not thinking of capitalising on the growth potential our club obviously has - the idea of asset stripping makes little sense when there is so much more to be made long term and asset stripping usually occurs when a company is heading towards the junkyard.
    How about:

    1. Use the stadium move to built the long term asset value of the club, inflate the share price but most importantly act as a cover for the shareholders' exit strategies.

    2. Shareholders get out with a close on 100% return.

    3. Kroenke and his bean counters identify big profits to be made from the Arsenal (and PL) brand overseas based on under-performance on the commercial side. Figures a 5 years stint pouring everything into marketing while relying on Wenger to keep the team as competitive as possible for the smallest amount of investment possible.

    4. Disaster at Man Utd and Blackburn, plan jeopardised, kick some of the transfer profits back in order to maintain the minimum. 4th place will do, it gives the global exposure that helps with the marketing even though we have no chance of winning it. In come the journeymen, they'll do. Now if only they don't get injured.

    5. Kroenke boosts the share value up to the levels he has predicted by maximising the marketing potential. They've kept their promise, we're now a big club globally - in terms of shirt sales and TV deals. Shame about what's going on on the pitch but you can't have everything and after all, we're still in the CL by some miracle.

    6. Kroenke picks up the phone to Usmanov. You can have it but it will cost you. Reckon he could clear maybe £200-£300mill more than he's paid for the thing if the marketing gang get it right. Easy money. Everyone with a financial interest wins.

    Provided we can hang on around the top there's no need to ever compete, no need to actually win anything. Park, the African players, the kids, they may not be great for winning trophies but they can all be turned into revenue streams. I guess the idea is that if we are big financially then eventually we'll be able to compete in the transfer markets and do it under the terms of financial fair play because we'll be using football related revenue rather than bungs from rich blokes. It sort of even makes sense, the only downside being that as a fan just don't expect to see much football in the next 5-6 years.
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