Arsenal's Decline: Are there any easy answers?

[fakeyank]

Well yes of course but he has raised the bar so high with that i am dumbfounded. Someone actually wanting fans like Leeds and Millwall is truly astounding.

Its a little like Greenpeace saying, "We aren't getting anywhere with our peaceful methods, you know what we need? Some of those take the situation by the scruff of the neck Nazi types, I wonder if Hitler is still around. Or what about that Stalin chap? He always delivered"

Like Letters mentioned in the post below the above quoted post, I meant passionate, vocal fans. It is fans like you for which Arsenal will have a manager like Arsene and douche bags in the board. Unfortunately most fans who can make a difference have that attitude. Arsenal really is going down the shitter!

[LDG]

Like Letters mentioned in the post below the above quoted post, I meant passionate, vocal fans. It is fans like you for which Arsenal will have a manager like Arsene and douche bags in the board. Unfortunately most fans who can make a difference have that attitude. Arsenal really is going down the shitter!

That's a bit harsh mate.We have some top top fans. We are passionate, but we're also quite well educated. Not in a posh sense, more a football sense, mainly because if the football we've seen iver the last 15 years and the stuff we saw before.Yes the atmosphere has changed over the years, but there are many reasons behind that. Mostly because it has become far too expensive for local die hard working class fans to attend games. You have the money to get a plane over, stay in a hotel, go out drinking and go to a match. And i don't doubt your support at all. In fact, i think it's great that someone so far away can care so passionately. But people 1 mile down the road can't afford 50 quid, let alone the rest.It's happening at every club. But the passionate fans you have in your dreamworld are usually associated with clubs who still gather local support, price accordingly etc. if they had the financial pull of a bigger club, you can garuntee they will alienate their core support in exactly the same way.So save your posturing on passion etc and just get behind the lads. Cos that's what its about. Through good and bad.

[fakeyank]

That's a bit harsh mate.We have some top top fans. We are passionate, but we're also quite well educated. Not in a posh sense, more a football sense, mainly because if the football we've seen iver the last 15 years and the stuff we saw before.Yes the atmosphere has changed over the years, but there are many reasons behind that. Mostly because it has become far too expensive for local die hard working class fans to attend games. You have the money to get a plane over, stay in a hotel, go out drinking and go to a match. And i don't doubt your support at all. In fact, i think it's great that someone so far away can care so passionately. But people 1 mile down the road can't afford 50 quid, let alone the rest.It's happening at every club. But the passionate fans you have in your dreamworld are usually associated with clubs who still gather local support, price accordingly etc. if they had the financial pull of a bigger club, you can garuntee they will alienate their core support in exactly the same way.So save your posturing on passion etc and just get behind the lads. Cos that's what its about. Through good and bad.

I understand that football is expensive especially for many locals. What I am questioning is the 60000 fans that go to the ground. No one is asking for egypt style riots... How about being vocal about it in a game, banners? Every educated man and uneducated man can do that. Why is protesting against the club being run the way it is, considered bad?
Having said that, Arsene and his mugs have their time up IMO.. This small protest in bburn match will grow if as expectedly our team plays the way they have been playing.

[LDG]

Tbh mate, many fans that go and take their kids will have grown up seeing much much worse than current. There are many reasons beyond price that have changed our supporting voice.One reason is the football we have played and the success we have had in the last 15 years. You see it at utd, chelsea etc. you sit amd watch mesmorised. I bet if you correlated the "pationate" fans with league position or status, you'd see a massive similarity. Stoke, swansea etc who have never been spoiled by cups, and as i said before, don't attract a global fan base. They relish being the underdog.We're an established big club with honours pissing out our backsides and so we attract glory hinters, we attract a foruegn fanbase, tourists, kids, friends and family who come to see the hype. All of it impacts the crowd. Don't forget lots of us feel the pressure and nerves of winning big games, preserving our status etc. So many reasons. It's nit a simple as you think....yet here we are...and there are big signs of people shouting at the establishment. See the ox substitution. Don't write off our fans with a broad brush. Many of us care, sing and hope.

[Marc Overmars]

I understand that football is expensive especially for many locals. What I am questioning is the 60000 fans that go to the ground. No one is asking for egypt style riots... How about being vocal about it in a game, banners? Every educated man and uneducated man can do that. Why is protesting against the club being run the way it is, considered bad?
Having said that, Arsene and his mugs have their time up IMO.. This small protest in bburn match will grow if as expectedly our team plays the way they have been playing.

It's not easy to turn up with the intention of protesting though, the reason people turn up first and foremost is to support the team. When you start putting your personal feelings above the success of the club, then we as fans need to maybe look at ourselves as well. I certainly wouldn't bother paying 40, 50 sometimes 60 quid if all I was planning on doing was having a moan, a moan that would not make a jot of difference to anything.

[LDG]

It's not easy to turn up with the intention of protesting though, the reason people turn up first and foremost is to support the team. When you start putting your personal feelings above the success of the club, then we as fans need to maybe look at ourselves as well. I certainly wouldn't bother paying 40, 50 sometimes 60 quid if all I was planning on doing was having a moan, a moan that would not make a jot of difference to anything.

Yup. We'll support you ever more. That's the way it just fucking is.

[Xhaka Can’t]

What are these 'protests' supposed to achieve?

At Manchester United they've been protesting for years over the ownership and debt structure at the Club, and it remains exactly as it was. They are fortunate in that they have the best Manager in the game. A manager the current ownership did not appoint. Lets see how effective those protests have been when Fergie is gone.

The only effective protest method is to stop buying Arsenal related merchandising or stop going to games. I've only been to a couple myself - I want to go to more, I love the buzz of going to a game, but I'm pretty disgusted with the thought of contributing to the coffers of a Club who's ownership will pocket the money. I thought about going tomorrow, but decided to make do with a few pre match drinks.

FY, you've been going to games for five minutes and you have a limited understanding of the experience of a large section of match goers and every post you make exposes this limited understanding further. Some of your statements in this thread are both ignorant and insulting to people who regularly get behind the team.

Many people paying to go to matches are making big financial sacrifices and while they share your frustration, they in the main get behind the team. And that is what fans attending should continue to do for as long as this team are in with the prospect of playing for something, whether it is the CL, FA Cup or CL Qualification.

[Letters]

I thought about going tomorrow, but decided to make do with a few pre match drinks.

You coming to the Rocket?
Was looking for someone to keep MrsL company during the game but think Handy can only pop in quickly pre-match so MrsL will probably stay at home which means I can't be out to play for too long.

(sorry everyone, carry on)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah, coming along before the match.

[fakeyank]

What are these 'protests' supposed to achieve?

At Manchester United they've been protesting for years over the ownership and debt structure at the Club, and it remains exactly as it was. They are fortunate in that they have the best Manager in the game. A manager the current ownership did not appoint. Lets see how effective those protests have been when Fergie is gone.

The only effective protest method is to stop buying Arsenal related merchandising or stop going to games. I've only been to a couple myself - I want to go to more, I love the buzz of going to a game, but I'm pretty disgusted with the thought of contributing to the coffers of a Club who's ownership will pocket the money. I thought about going tomorrow, but decided to make do with a few pre match drinks.

FY, you've been going to games for five minutes and you have a limited understanding of the experience of a large section of match goers and every post you make exposes this limited understanding further. Some of your statements in this thread are both ignorant and insulting to people who regularly get behind the team.

Many people paying to go to matches are making big financial sacrifices and while they share your frustration, they in the main get behind the team. And that is what fans attending should continue to do for as long as this team are in with the prospect of playing for something, whether it is the CL, FA Cup or CL Qualification.

I dont need to go to 100 games to know that Arsenal fans are not vocal for the most part. Emirates sounded just like how it sounded on tv- quite! My question or concern is really simple- would you or letters or ldg (ppl I know who go to games) make an effort to take a banner saying "where is my club going? Arsene, phw, stan... Someone give me an answer!" This does not mean not supporting the team... Support anyone in an arsenal shirt giving 100%. The players need the support no matter how talentless they are...