Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
Spot on Maccy.
Spot on Maccy.
1. Of course but managers are ultimately always accountable for it. In a bad sense or a good sense. Wenger could easily be given credit for playing RVP in that role when he himself said that that he questioned whether it was a good decision by Wenger, when he suggested it to him. And that interview with that quote was broadcast very recently.
2. Players coming out every week, really? It's not all down to the manager, I never suggested it was. We made some terrible mistakes with how we chose to act in August and that quite clearly ran in to how we performed at the beginning of the season and that is unquestionably a fault of Wenger's. I would say we've never mismanaged a summer as badly as the one just gone though and I can only hope it never comes to close to that again.
3. Ah I didn't say anything about that (i.e it's a reply to someone else), so I'll leave that one.
4. Of course, he has some very evident flaws. If you're going to use that as some kind of litmus test for the rest of the managers in the league then I think you will find bad mistakes made by most of them. And everything should be up for debate, I'd like to think that's why the forum should exist!
5. This is very much like No.1 for me. You can directly talk about players that might have suddenly had a lightbulb and decided to do things properly (not that they would be able to if they were in an extremely rigid team) but the managers always ends up getting the credit when it goes well. Just like he would have got the criticism if it had remained at 0-2 and just like 'Arry got the criticism for losing 5-2, rather than say King who suddenly looked like a lumbering oaf.
aye, i guess we're both viewing the change in fortune from a different view. you place a lot of emphasis on wenger whilst i place it on the players.
here:where did i say that?
not saying any of them are better
I don't get the Mourinho knockers, I get that they might not like him because of what he does but to knock his achievements is nonsensical.
The fact is at every club he's been he's delivered massive success, at Porto he won the league, UEFA Cup and CL....they've not got near the CL since then. At Chelsea he made them the dominant force and won several titles and cups..again they've not got near the success since he left. At Inter he won the treble including the CL, the CL was the holy grail for them and they hadn't got near winning it for many years and don't look capale of winning sh*t since he left. At Real he delivered the cup in his 1st season and now his team are top of the league ahead of the team people regard as the best in the world.
To argue with his record is ridiculous to be honest, other than at Arsenal Wenger hasn't achieved that much, one title and a cup in France, a cup in Japan and then some great success with us in his earlier days...it's now been over 6 years since those sucesses.
His record is good but not in the same league as Mourinho in any sense, in addition how many top managers do you know that have gone that long without a trophy of sorts? IMO a manager of a big club should be measure by the success he achieves and based on his whole record for us that's not that great.
Who the f*ck is going to remember qualifying for the CL in 10 years time, this isn't going to be written in the history books.
Last edited by Özim; 11-04-2012 at 07:26 PM.
Yes he has won alot at diffrent clubs but when he does it at the same club like, Fergie has or like Pep has or even like Wenger has he will get more respected.
People go on like he is the best manager on earth when in truth he is far from it.
Id like to see him stay at one club and deliever success over an amout of time then he can be called great.
Its easy to manage one of the top 2 teams in the league he has of course he'd win the league id have been more impressed if he did the treble with Napoli tbh.
Last edited by Olivier's xmas twist; 11-04-2012 at 07:33 PM.
Why the f*ck should he stay at one club, this isn' t the dark ages anymore, players and managers move around...Wenger has been at this club far too long IMO and look at the problems it's caused, everything is about him and that's an unhealthy situation......it's the same thing with Fergie but at least he does things right and is hungry for success and produces it time after time...once he leaves though any new manager will find it very hard to manage the club because everything is about Ferguson that'll be a burden in itself for someone new.
Mourinho is one of the best whether you like it or not and he's proved it time after time, short term success is much harder to achieve than long term success as you don't have years to build a team and squad, maintaining success is hard (though Mourinho did it with Chelsea) but Wenger has failed to do this anyway.
Like i said its easier to win the league when your one fo the top 2 teams in the country with the money he spends.
he is a good coach but to be a good manager you have to prove you can do it at 1 club consistantly. Pep have proved it not sure why Jose can't.
Even when Pep leaves Barca the future will still be bright for them and the next manger won't have a real task.
Unilke Jose once he leaves he more or less sticks 2 fingers up at a club. Look at Chavs and Inter now.
Can't knock his achievements but one of the greatest not just yet.
i get the fact players and managers move around, but even so. Some have ambtion to be the greatest manager that club has.
Last edited by Olivier's xmas twist; 11-04-2012 at 07:46 PM.
i also didnt say any of them are worse.
top mod
spot on. people on one hand say 'cant judge fergie hes really only been at one club', then when we have a phenomenal manager who moves around and takes EVERY club he's been at to the top, it apparently shows he's not the best.
ridiculous.
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