So, how do WE win the league?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't think we can win the league in the current climate. I do think we could and should be a lot closer though.
A change of manager won't change things as the board as as to blame, if not more, for the lack of investment as Wenger IMO.
In the circumstances we've done well to finish 3rd but we shouldn't be so far away.

Pretty much we won't win the league while city continue to spend regardless of Wenger being here or not.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

There isn't a sensible level of investment in football. What's the difference between spending £60m each year to spending £160 in one season to bring you from a mid table team to a Champions League team? One team has spent to get to our level and we're talking about spending to win the league. If there is nothing wrong with us spending there is nothing wrong with City spending to win the league. Every team does it but City have done it in a shorter amount of time. Was speaking to my work colleage whose a Spurs fan and he had the cheek to say they've bought the league when they've spent millions just to get into the top four. There is no moral high ground for this and it's funny how people are outraged by it.

You're thinking along the same lines as all the city fans, owners, people in general that see big investments as a way to win trophies. When we swipe Southampton's best players for millions, not a word is said, but I'm sure their fans are pissed at the way the big clubs can just swoop in and take their most talented after years spent developing them. But this is football.

Well this is just it - you say 'but this is football' as a way of saying 'but this is business' but the way Citeh operates is not sound in a business sense, it's at the whim of one man. It's falsely propped up.

That's the distinction.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

As a few have said, there is no chance of winning the league while we have Wenger as manager. He's just not good enough, unfortunately. I do think we can challenge for the league, perhaps even strongly next year depending on what we do in the transfer market, but there is no chance of winning it.

We have no chance of winning the league if Wenger goes either its that simple. I agree a new manager should come in, Wenger going changes nothing.

Anyone who think a new manager will be given more money etc.. by this board are deluding themselves.

City will pump another billion to retain their title and may do the same for another 2 years. We can't compete with us unless this board go or we get taken over by a billionaire its simples.

The days of us being a dominant force for now are over.

[Niall_Quinn]

There isn't a sensible level of investment in football. What's the difference between spending £60m each year to spending £160 in one season to bring you from a mid table team to a Champions League team? One team has spent to get to our level and we're talking about spending to win the league. If there is nothing wrong with us spending there is nothing wrong with City spending to win the league. Every team does it but City have done it in a shorter amount of time. Was speaking to my work colleage whose a Spurs fan and he had the cheek to say they've bought the league when they've spent millions just to get into the top four. There is no moral high ground for this and it's funny how people are outraged by it.

You're thinking along the same lines as all the city fans, owners, people in general that see big investments as a way to win trophies. When we swipe Southampton's best players for millions, not a word is said, but I'm sure their fans are pissed at the way the big clubs can just swoop in and take their most talented after years spent developing them. But this is football.

WTF? What EXACTLY is your argument? Wenger out because Arsenal have spent just as much money in the last 100 years as city spent this season and I'm a hypocrite so Wenger definitely out in favour of an unknown manager that nobody knows about? That's what I'm picking up from you at the moment, have I got it wrong?

My ACTUAL point was leave Wenger in place, he's just finished 3rd, has a year to go on his contract and we have that year to find a replacement. Meanwhile build up the team with a few signings we have owed to us after all the money we EARNED FROM FOOTBALL ACTIVITIES was pinched by the board. Time to give it back. Arsenal are almost the exact opposite of City.

[Power n Glory]

Well this is just it - you say 'but this is football' as a way of saying 'but this is business' but the way Citeh operates is not sound in a business sense, it's at the whim of one man. It's falsely propped up.

That's the distinction.

Does it matter? The whole system is unfair.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

WTF? What EXACTLY is your argument? Wenger out because Arsenal have spent just as much money in the last 100 years as city spent this season and I'm a hypocrite so Wenger definitely out in favour of an unknown manager that nobody knows about? That's what I'm picking up from you at the moment, have I got it wrong?

My ACTUAL point was leave Wenger in place, he's just finished 3rd, has a year to go on his contract and we have that year to find a replacement. Meanwhile build up the team with a few signings we have owed to us after all the money we EARNED FROM FOOTBALL ACTIVITIES was pinched by the board. Time to give it back. Arsenal are almost the exact opposite of City.

Brillaint post good to see Sense is still on this board.

But Wenger is not going anyway.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Does it matter? The whole system is unfair.

Well none of 'this' really should matter. Not talking about Arsenal, Citeh or anybody else but we do, because we talk about football. And so to us, yes it does matter. Tell Rangers fans money doesn't matter after not needing to care about it when they won the league nine seasons in a row.

[Power n Glory]

What? You've just set out a position and assigned it to me and then chastised me for being a hypocrite! Fair enough, but I feel a bit left out of this debate. No, I suggest we get Jack back, bring Ox on as fast as possible, make sure RvP signs, get Podolski settled quickly and bring in 2-3 decent players for maybe £60-70million (incl. wages) which the board can well afford after all those years of raking in the proceeds. That would be roughly how much they have clawed out in investment that should have gone into the team over the last 5 years I'd guess. If you count Arshavin as a premium signing then one a year is fair enough for a club of our stature, especially in light of the names heading out the door.

I'm at a loss to explain this determination to have only two possibilities, zero investment or Man City levels of investment. The latter is an oddity, the exception rather than the rule. Aside from the artificial teams such as City and Chelsea, you can look back and see fairly sensible levels of investment in football. This has been skewed recently due to the activities of those artificial teams as others have sought to keep pace but I'd be happy with a quality signing each year to move things forward. In fact I'd say we've been a quality signing short of getting rid of this trophy blight on several occasions.

WTF? What EXACTLY is your argument? Wenger out because Arsenal have spent just as much money in the last 100 years as city spent this season and I'm a hypocrite so Wenger definitely out in favour of an unknown manager that nobody knows about? That's what I'm picking up from you at the moment, have I got it wrong?

My ACTUAL point was leave Wenger in place, he's just finished 3rd, has a year to go on his contract and we have that year to find a replacement. Meanwhile build up the team with a few signings we have owed to us after all the money we EARNED FROM FOOTBALL ACTIVITIES was pinched by the board. Time to give it back. Arsenal are almost the exact opposite of City.

This all links to a wider argument and discussions we've had in the past about City, our owners and we get back our to winning trophies. Plus there has been a lot of talk of trophies being bought and City lacking class...etc. Some views just aren't consistent.

[Letters]

Does it matter? The whole system is unfair.

Well yes it is, but when a club has the infinite money cheat on the rest of us might as well give up and go home.
Utd and Arsenal have money because of previous success which has generated a large fan base and thus lots of money. At least when Utd throw money around it is their own money.
City were in mid-table, they get taken over by someone who just decides to throw money at them till they win the league just 'cos he can. It's not just they can buy any player they want, they can buy players to stop their rivals getting stronger. I still think that we would have signed SWP back when Chelsea had the infinite money cheat on but no, they doubled the price, bought him and stuck him on the bench. Cos they could. Their squad gets stronger still, they prevent us from getting stronger.

The level of money, and the uneven distribution of it, has been increasing exponentially for a while now - pretty much since the PL started. Chelsea and now City have taken it to increasingly obscene levels though. I want Arsenal to be winning trophies but not like that.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Does it matter? The whole system is unfair.

Of course is matters think of the Everton's and Villa's etc who will never see their clubs win the league unless they get taken over by some rich guy.

Yes Utd and us in the past Spent money to win the league but that was done with money earned no because some guy chucked his chequebook at us and say go win me the league.

Its not City's fault but Fifa/Uefa who let this happen and are spoiling the game.