Wenger Referendum II - And this time it's personal

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I haven't paid for a single game this season, benefited from my brothers season ticket when he has been unable to go. And even then it's often not been enough of a pull.
That said most of the games I've been to have been worth it just for the entertainment value on the pitch, Galatasaray, Dortmund, Newcastle, West Ham and Liverpool.

[Niall_Quinn]

For me the story of Arsenal over the last decade is all about a small group of individuals who leveraged the traditions of the game and found themselves in the right place at the right time when the priority fully shifted from sport to business. These previous shareholders were looking at meagre pocket change investment being transformed into a half billion pay day. The stories we heard about the knife fights as this looting progressed probably only hint at the voraciousness of the pigfest behind the scenes. It must have placed Wenger in a difficult situation. I don't attribute any bad intent to the manager, I think he genuinely loves the club. I don't think we can realistically tarnish him with the same brush that can be rightly used to paint the bastards who are using Arsenal as a personal cash machine, or the ones who undoubtedly intend to do the same in the future.

[Power n Glory]

For me the story of Arsenal over the last decade is all about a small group of individuals who leveraged the traditions of the game and found themselves in the right place at the right time when the priority fully shifted from sport to business. These previous shareholders were looking at meagre pocket change investment being transformed into a half billion pay day. The stories we heard about the knife fights as this looting progressed probably only hint at the voraciousness of the pigfest behind the scenes. It must have placed Wenger in a difficult situation. I don't attribute any bad intent to the manager, I think he genuinely loves the club. I don't think we can realistically tarnish him with the same brush that can be rightly used to paint the bastards who are using Arsenal as a personal cash machine, or the ones who undoubtedly intend to do the same in the future.

I’m not so sure. The business model he preaches and practices benefits the shareholders. That’s why they love him up in the Board room and why he’s able to get away with what’s happening on the pitch because he deliveries the numbers for the Board. He’s a smart guy and it was telling when he went into one of shareholders meetings, (AGM I think) and delivered a snarky jab when they were questioning his managerial decisions. As shareholders, he said something along the lines of ‘they shouldn’t have a thing to complain about because the money was rolling in’. Their interest were being looked after was the message, not realising that they were diehard fans as well. I’m sure he loves the club, but he’s said in the past that his job is to keep the shareholders happy and I suspect he employs certain money saving practices to do so. He’s got job security locked for years because of it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

With the exception of the 3million KSE has received there hadn't been any immediate financial rewards unless Kroenke sells his shareholder ship and there is no indication that he will do this.

[Kano]

It's hard to separate the lack of focus at the start of the season and drop off once top four was sorted. There is always an 'excuse' - injuries, summer tournament, new signings - the likes of which didn't affect the champions, despite them changing the crucial spine of their team. Comparing our end of season with Chelsea is ludicrous given they have nothing more to achieve and can lose nothing. We had second to aim for and third is there still to be lost. Losing momentum as we have is a dangerous game because if we mess up the next two games we'll end up lower. Likely? Probably not but just like starting a game poorly, it becomes a struggle to turn around lack of momentum.

Whether fans like Letters are happy with third is irrelevant because the players objectives and those from above are what drives the club. A lot of them have said they want to finish second, as much also saying beating a top four team is a massive boost. It's obvious finishing above City would boost the squad - if beating them in a single game is seen as positive, then it stands to reason that finishing higher than most of them has a similar effect. I don't see how a convincing argument can be raised suggesting otherwise. City have been classed as having a bad season, yet they would've scored more and still finished above us. That won't transpire again next season, so the reverse effect can be applied to them. Knowing they were under par but still held off an 'improved' Arsenal reminds them how strong they are. It realigns their focus that the changes in the squad do not have to be as dramatic as the press suggested a 6 weeks ago.

Billionaire ‘cheats' or not, it sets an immovable bar of high standards at Chelsea and City (and we’ve got some cheek denigrating those clubs given the corporate approach taken by our club and how distant they are from fans) where second best isn't tolerated, let alone a comfortable, safe third. Again, looking at Atletico and Dortmund as examples, their hungriness to succeed takes some abating on the pitch, an eagerness you can’t always align with ourselves. That’s what a desire to succeed looks like, not easing off at the start of the season and when the minimum has been achieved.

[Niall_Quinn]

With the exception of the 3million KSE has received there hadn't been any immediate financial rewards unless Kroenke sells his shareholder ship and there is no indication that he will do this.

Well he will at some stage or what's the point? He's not in it for the love of the game. People like Kroenke bet on sure things. You and I take a punt and are subject to market forces. He will already know what's going to happen in the market. The increased TV deal didn't get decided overnight, for example. These things are announced only once the key figures are happy with their cut. The change in FFP rules, that would have been known well in advance. Kroneke is an investor (in the real sense as opposed to the types at Utd), his aim is to make a profit on his relationship with Arsenal and seeing as he's kicked half a billion into the pot I doubt he's going to wait around to watch it trickle back over the long term. Usmanov is next in line, then the Nigerian guy I suppose. Plenty of room at the trough provided the game doesn't collapse under the weight of the bullshit.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Success breeds success. Bayern Munich make the template of succeeding the template for business. I see no where in the report where government subsidies are included. Do you really think the other teams would have stood for that without going to court.? As ever, make up an alternative reality to substitute for the real one, it helps I guess.

There is plenty to be critical of and we are pretty much on the same page. However the stadium comparison is immaterial to this discussion because there is no legitimate comparison to be made as illustrated by earlier posts here and in past discussions from years ago.

The most cursory research will also demonstrate that.

[Kano]

Wenger "Finishing second means you are better than 18 teams, who doesn't want that?...That's a competitive attitude...the end of a season is linked to belief of next seasons start".

Ramsey "Finishing second is probably progression".

Added to similar comments from Merts, Wilshere, Paulista, Sanchez and Cazorla it's clear what the belief is from the players.

Have the players purposely slacked off with the final ahead or top four secured? One win in four games seems to contradict those statements at the top. Words are one thing but breaking a decade long habit - with the same man still overseeing things - is an incredibly hard thing to achieve. Best intentions aren't always enough to fix a situation or change its direction. Most of the players at our club probably feel like they've already made it, playing for a big club like ours on mega wages. A lot have been plucked from smaller teams. We have a very comfortable 'home' where Wenger is rarely in a hurry to ditch a player. Naming an unchanged team even after we stopped winning sends a message of safety for players. Ferguson went 99 games or something ridiculous naming changed teams because he got that not only do you have to keep players fresh but they have to be kept on their toes.

If those statements at the top are to be taken at face value then the squad has been mismanaged to the point of failing to achieve the goal of second. If we are to look at the performances as 'slacking off' rather than lack of ability, then it also points to a similar managerial and motivational issue. Either way I think there is a problem to be examined inbetween the goal set and what was achieved. One thing is for certain, players at our club like ours don't start off a season aiming to win the FA Cup. That is only a bonus. A decoration. Nothing more and not really remembered after the career is done alongside the more celebrated trophies.

[Marc Overmars]

2nd, 3rd, 4th - meh.

Well 4th would be annoying but 2nd or 3rd I'm not really arsed. We will accumulate less points than last year but probably finish higher this year, league positions and points tallies need to be put into perspective. We have stagnated, as far as I'm concerned the only barometer that needs to be looked at is where we are in terms of challenging for the league and sadly we were nowhere near, again. This was the year for us to gain some credibility as challengers, we have the squad but unfortunately a manager who just can't seem to give his team those marginal gains needed.

All I can say is just win the cup, don't even dare to screw it up WUMger.

[Globalgunner]

There is plenty to be critical of and we are pretty much on the same page. However the stadium comparison is immaterial to this discussion because there is no legitimate comparison to be made as illustrated by earlier posts here and in past discussions from years ago.

The most cursory research will also demonstrate that.

Tha`ts probably why the same comparison was made in a national daily and came to the same conclusion that ours was a lousy deal